Portepee

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

Not sure if this goes here or especially if it's ID'd for a particular country/era if it would be better placed in another section. I'll leave it up to the powers that be.

Had this one forever and a day. No history on it. What you see is what I got.

Any ideas?

Dan

[Naxos]

Hello Dan,

It is a Prussian Mannschaftstroddel (Ranks below Unteroffizier bayonet knot) the colors indicate the company. Yours is a rather rare Seitengewehr Troddel of a Festungs-Maschinen-Gewehr-Kompagnie (Fortress Machine Gun Company)

here you find the colors of the Troddeln: http://www.bajonett.de/Troddel/troddeln_und_faustriemen.htm

and here is the same as yours: http://www.bajonett.de/Troddel/Troddel14.htm

Regards, Hardy

[Naxos]

Here a pic of how to attach the Troddel to a Seitengewehr

here, what Ranks carried what kind of Troddel

Hardy

[Hauptmann]

Hi Hardy,

Many thanks on all this great info for this piece! It does have a bit of a sad story though. I'd originally gotten my Uncle Jack's German daggers and bayonet he'd brought back from WWII. He'd dug them out one day and thought I might like them. Included with them was a portepee. I still have it in the original Poloroids he'd sent along to see if I was intro'd in the daggers and such. So I got the whole bunch and kept everything of his in my collection.

Years later I got this one and one other which looked very similar to Jack's although the leather was in pieces. I'll have to go down and dig and see what I can come up with in a few minutes.

Then even further down the road I was making some deals with a Gent I dealt with up in Delaware... needed some cash to pay some bill or for Christmas for Nick and Kim or some such and was pairing down my extras and things of no interest. Well, I grabbed one of the portepees that I thought was the extra, having forgotten that the extra was the one with the damaged leather. Turns out, after the deal was made and I'd sent the stuff I had occassion to look at that original Poloroid and realized I'd done the deal for the wrong one... I'd sent him the one my Uncle had brought back!!!! So I rushed to the phone and called him, esplained the situation in the hope that he would be willing to exchange it for this one. Sadly, he'd gotten it for resale and it had already gone at a flea market or show or some such. So no way to trace the buyer. So off went another piece of family history to the four winds! And this time it was my own stupidity that did it! To this day I feel miserable about it.

But nice to know this one seems to be something good. Just out of curiosity, what is something like this worth nowadays? I generally keep it in a drawer with other odds and ends but wondering if it should take a more important place of display in the collection. Also what period would this be... WWI or pre WWI? And what type of bayo would it be best to display it on? I have a few German bayos but nothing fancy anymore And I think only one has it's frog. I'd definitely want to do right by it, especially if it's an important piece but I'm nearly in the dark about such things... knowing enough to be dangerous.

Anyhow I'll take a trudge down in the bunker and see if I can dig up pics. If so I'll pop them up on here in just a bit.

Thanks again,

Dan

Edited January 14, 2007 by Hauptman

[Hauptmann]

Okay... just got back up from the bunker, scrounging and scanning and such. Hoping this will all show up well enough to do some good. At least perhaps I'll now know what I had and if the other is of any consequence or not.

First off, one of the original pics from my Uncle showing his daggers:

And some closeups:

[Hauptmann]

At the time (I hope rightly) in my limited knowledge I felt that this was not proper for a German Army Officers dagger nor would it have been properly worn on the scabbard as opposed to around the grip. So I carefully removed it. I truly hope I did not do the wrong thing as then I'll feel all the worse for the entire situation.

Here are the pics of the "extra":

As you can see... other than the colors they are still very similar. Over time and with them having been out of sight out of mind for so long at the time and for whatever reason stored in different places in my den I ended up making the mistake. God how I wish I'd pulled them all out, along with the Polaroid and checked before I dove in. Even if he'd not wanted the damaged one... I'd rather have made less and still had my Uncles bring back to keep it with the rest. Lord knows enough of his stuff went to the four winds that I was supposed to inherit and place with the collection to be handed down in the family. Arrrrrgh!

Anyhow, I'm hoping perhaps you or one of the other members might be able to tell something about these other pieces. This has definitely not been an area I've even come close to specializing in or actively collecting so any knowledge will certainly be a blessing... and perhaps make me less dangerous in future.

I'm also wondering come to think of it... if there's any possibility of repairing the leather on this somehow? It's the way I got it, except for the fact that it had that old style tape wrapped around the broken ends... the kind with the stringy material in it, that all disintegrates when it gets old. I've removed all that. Again not sure if it's worth fooling with or not.

Many thanks!!!!

Dan

[Naxos]

Dan,

some nice cuttlery you got there there!

Thanks for the pics. The portepee on the Heeres Dolch is not the right one. The one shown on your polaoid is from a Sabre.

The value of the Bayonet Knot is around $60 to $90

Take care, Hardy

[Hauptmann]

Dan,

some nice cuttlery you got there there!

Thanks for the pics. The portepee on the Heeres Dolch is not the right one. The one shown on your polaoid is from a Sabre.

The value of the Bayonet Knot is around $60 to $90

Take care, Hardy

Hi Hardy,

Wow, many thanks for the compliment! They love the attention. Glad I got it right on the one on the Army dagger... figured it was for a sword. But still wish I'd not left it go. Any idea on the unit, etc? How about on the one that's in pieces?

On the Bayo one... you're kidding? And to think I've just had this stuff sitting in a drawer all this time. If I could get that kind of $$'s for it I think I might consider letting it go... could use that right now to take care of something else more in line with my current lines of collecting. And again I've never been into these so in a way would prefer someone who is to get it and be able to enjoy it and take care of it.

Very nice to know it's something of value and importance. I think it was in with a box of assorted stuff I got... either that or I picked it up from a bits and pieces table or box somewhere along the way. Just been too long and can't remember. Well over twenty years ago I'm sure.

Mucho thanks!

Dan

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

I'm adding a shameless plug... but I have the Seitengewehr Troddel of a Festungs-Maschinen-Gewehr-Kompagnie from post #1 above in the sale section. Since the estimate I was given was between $60 and $90, I decided to split the difference and ask $75 plus shipping (of the buyers choice) and 4% Paypal feels.

So if anyone is intro'd and would like to dress up their Imperial butcher blade bayo please give me a shout and we'll go from there.

Thanks,

Dan

[Hauptmann]

Sorry all... I'd forgotten to post that the troddel was sold a good while back.

Many thanks to the buyer!

Dan

[ccj]

Do you have a document explaining how to attach a Portepee to a sword? I'm specifically interested in a Hessen infantry scored pattern with Portepee

Hey guys, please excuse my ignorance on swords.

I know that Hussars,Uhlans, even artillery carried swords but it seems (Besides Aussiesoldiers "KD98 Troopers combat sword" ) All seem to be presentation type swords.

 

Now the question: Were the majority of the real front fighting combat swords confiscated/destroyed, turned back into the unit arms room and lost forever? Or did the owners keep them?

I assume the combat swords would be of much higher quality since technically speaking they were meant to kill and defend, not some bendy metal that looks pretty.

I love looking at them, and it's another thing I need to study up on.

Keep the pics coming!!

Eric

[Mervyn Mitton]

I'll contact Hardy and see if he can help ?   This is a subject many are unsure about.   Mervyn

[aussiesoldier]

Gentlemen,

 

I posted on the German Edged Weapons site photographs of WW1 1889 Infantry swords.  There is nothing to say that they were not carried into battle in 1914. Indeed, I have a photograph of a British officer during the retreat from Mons armed with a 1897 Infantry sword and a group of German officers in Brussels armed with a variet of swords including 1889 infantry and the 1855 Bavarian sword.  Fearful of the attention the sword brought from snipers and the impractically of wearing a sword in the trenches, it seems they were put away once the Western Front settled into trench warfare.

 

NOTE.  Montgomery carried his sword into battle in the opening months of the war.

 

 

There are also a large number of German Artillery swords of the modified Blucher design on the market and in collections. Mine is dated 1916.  I have a photo of a German artillerymen beside his horse, sword fitted to saddle and another of the 'postman' on his horse, sword fitted.

 

I'll do what I can to post some of them on the edged weapon site and on here.

 

George