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Beautiful chain. Just two corrections. Chain is postwar. This type of button is Godet´s first postwar button. Iron cross is second class. First class looks like this:

(chain is not in my collection)

Edited by marrauder
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Thank you alot Westfale! Mr. Stephen Previtera is researching that matter right now. I will get back with the results!

Marrauder:

Thank you alot for your observations, probably the chain is toyed with (and therefore ownership could prove hard to find out).

I can't understand how someone with the second class of the Iron Cross also get the Pour le Mérite, the House orden of Hohenzollern but not the first class of the Iron Cross. And if he did so, why is'nt the first class on the chain?

Very strange indeed.

All the best

Dennis

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My own opinion is that these were private purchase vanity items and that

we can not just assume that an Ek device is a second class because it is two sided.

Ribbon bars do not have any Ek1 device. Why would we expect a frackchain or button hole

group to unless the owner did as the one posted above and had a single sided Ek put on it.

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I think the fact that EK1 was worn also on frack and civil formal dress - as we see on photos - plays the role as well. Why he´d wanted mini EK1 on chain when he was surely going to wear EK1 on civil dress in its full size.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I would have thought with a group such as this there is a resonable possibilty of attribution. The value would be considerably more if it could be attributed than if not and obviously the attribution would make a lot of difference (if for example it was an air ace then it could be quite a bit). As is I would have thought $500 or so.

Paul

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Three choices with that chain, in order of likelihood:

1) Frankenstein parts bar

2) Godet window display

3) grotesquely incorrect Württemberg Order

The mounting precedence is such that neither a Prussian nor a Württemberger would have worn these awards--JUST these awards--the way they are.

The Friedrich Order mini is for the GRAND CROSS--note blue enamel ring around center and motto on reverse center. It's not--as would be normal at first glance with ONLY these awards, a Knight 1st Class. So.

NO Prussian or Württemberger had--or could have had--the combination if "correct."

If the WF1X mini is a mistake for a WF2bX (only reverse center different)... ditto. NO Prussian or Württemberger had or could have had this combination.

MANY officers of senior rank had many OTHER awards, and if choosing "only the top ones" for fashion statement reduced wear... cannot imagine any circumstances that the mounting precedence and JUST that Württemberg award would have been the selection.

If the WF1X was a REALLY big mistake for a WF3aX, then there is only a single Prussian officer who "could" have had these awards--and JUST these awards--but as a serving Reichsheer officer, there is NO way he'd have mounted them in that precedence.

So, absolutely useless to speculate on a wearer when by all permutations there wasn't one. That's the problem with minis.

The OTHER problem with Weird Stuff is that

as we see more times than we'd like

original folk who did bizarre, non-regulation, irrational things indeed leave the slightest chance that this admittedly Frankenstein quartet MIGHT conceivably have been worn, God alone knows why, by a Real Somebody. I would nevernevernevernever N-E-V-E-R disassemble it for individual parts. It is.. whatever it is.

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I can just think how I would do if I where going to do a Frankenstein chain. I would buy miniatures made by the same maker (fe Godet) and assembly them after some semi famous officer and then try to make some bucks out of it.

The problem with that way of thinking is that this combination does not fit any person who I know (or anybody in the thread about the chain)...

The only IRL pour le merite chain ive ever seen so its hard to see how they did it.

The loops are identical also. Swords or crown = a round ring. And the Iron cross and the PLM looks like small brothers of the Knights cross/grand cross and the big version of PLM with this oval loop.

Paul Wood: The value of the PLM alone is over 2000$ so 500$ is not a realistic idea at all. I wonder if you would even get the empty chain for that money.

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Actually most Frankensteins are made out of common stuff thrown together to "look great" but make Richthofens out of Gefreiters. That's why there's a good chance yours was a window display advertising sample. Godet's brochures--as do many outfitters--often showed "sample" medal bars that no live person could have actually worn.

There is and always has been a profound difference in collecting tastes concerning minis in the U.S. and Europe. American collectors have far too long considered these tiny magnificently detailed enamel jewels :love: as if they were nothing more than girlfriend charm bracelets. :banger: Possibly because so many are Frankensteins and might have been assembled for that purpose in Year Zero + for the occupation trade. There is therefore a great gap in how American collectors value these and European collectors do. Very few American collectors would have any interest whatsoever at ANY price in a stripped no-awards minis chain. Regional markets!

Actually gents (and stray ladies present), have we EVER seen a celebrity chain? I don't think so. They are most often long forgotten obscure officers and civil servants, as a search on names:

Brenken, Göring (no not HIM!!! :cheeky: ), Höne, Schack, von Stuckrad, (Freiherr von) Stumm, and Sympher will reveal from the back pages. UH OH! my compadres I now see didn't post these back around December 2010. NEw threads started. Anyone with similar groups that "should" be identifiable I'd advise posting as new separate threads, since this thread has grown unwieldy in its immenseness.

Got a couple of fine armpit to belly tiny treasures coming up at our next Traveling Museum conclave... so Watch This Forum next week!!! :catjava:

Edited by Rick Research
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