Wehrmacht THE WARSAW SHIELD!

[Robin Lumsden]

Could be, Paul. Numbered assault badges spring to mind. Unfortunately, the official West German '57 awards have always been a 'no-no' for me ................. I just don't like them, so I've never been inclined to study them in any detail.

I can never understand why the West German Government couldn't just bite the bullet .................. especially in the Cold War scenario ................ and allow their WW2 vets to wear the REAL awards that they earned.

You can't change history.

'Historically Correct' has been replaced by 'Politically Correct'. :banger:

[Paul R]

Trust me Robin, I could not agree more. It is amazing how folks who survive defeated regimes always want to pretend as if it never existed.

[peter monahan]

Yes, to quote a recent [German] visitor to Canada, "Hundreds of years of German culture and all people remember are those unfortunate thirteen years." Which, of course, most Germans slept through and so were unaware of! Clearly a mind that needs to be broken and re-set!

[speedytop]

Hi Robin, Paul and Peter,

"You can't change history."

This is correct, but you could/can influence presence and future, in 1950 and in 2012.

And to prevent a "re-set", it was done well from the Germans.

You really want te "re-set" something like that what happened in these 12 years on abuse of power under this sign, the swastika?

And that had not been "unfortunate" years, there were years of intolerance, violence, injustice and contempt for human life, tolerated by many (much to many) Germans!

I'm sorry, but, as a German, I have my problems with such comments; it hurts me.

And, by the way, the "Bandenkampfabzeichen" (Anti Partisan Badge) was a symbol for all that, because many (most?) of these badges had not been given for actions against partisans, but for murder actions against innocent people.

To allow, that this Waffen-SS and Police badge might be worn, although denazified (as 1957 version), was a big mistake.

Uwe

PS: I beg your pardon for my insufficient English

[Robin Lumsden]

Trust me Robin, I could not agree more. It is amazing how folks who survive defeated regimes always want to pretend as if it never existed.

Korrekt!

History is ALWAYS written by the victors.

It has forever been thus.

You only have to look at The British Empire. Rudyard Kipling wrote some great books that would NEVER have seen the light of day if he had been alive in 2012.

[Paul R]

Korrekt!

History is ALWAYS written by the victors.

It has forever been thus.

You only have to look at The British Empire. Rudyard Kipling wrote some great books that would NEVER have seen the light of day if he had been alive in 2012.

Yes. I have read a few of his books. The ones I read are wonderful. Ironically, I am taking a class on the Rise and Fall of the British Empire this semester. It starts next week. I can hardly wait to get into it.

[Robin Lumsden]

It took centuries to rise .................. and about 2 years (1945-47) to fall. :banger:

[Kev in Deva]

Gentlemen,

if I may comment, it seem that the subject is wandering far off the topic as with regards the Warsaw Shield.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[speedytop]

Hi Kevin,

the "Warschauschild" is a very special shield.

Official regulations exist (RGBl 1945 I S.1), but it had never been awarded.

There is no signed award document and no produced shield exist (maybe two specimen???).

Based on the regulations of the German law from 1957 (Ordensgesetz) it was theoretically allowed, to wear the shield.

No official picture of the shield was known, and therefore it had not been redesigned, no specimen had been made.

In the early publications of the German Army (Bundeswehr) it was not included.

And, like all the other allowed arm shields and cuff titles, it could never be worn by (Bundeswehr) soldiers, because it was not allowed, to wear the arm shields and the cuff titles in the original size on the uniform. It was only allowed on the ribbon bar (Bandschnalle) or the mini bar (kleine Ordensschnalle).

Uwe

[Robin Lumsden]

Both von Arent designs together ............................

[Paul R]

Those are some classy designs. I like them both. What is the Balkan Shield stamped onto?

[Robin Lumsden]

Those are some classy designs. I like them both. What is the Balkan Shield stamped onto?

It isn't stamped, Paul.

It's hand-engraved.

A trial matrix.

One-of-a kind.

[Robin Lumsden]

This gives an idea of the detail in the engraving .....................

[Robin Lumsden]

And beside the von Arent sketch .............................

[Robin Lumsden]

Compared to one of the usual fakes ......................... on the right.

[Paul R]

That is really something. What is it engraved onto? Is it silver? I really love the detail.

[Robin Lumsden]

That is really something. What is it engraved onto? Is it silver? I really love the detail.

It's on heavy grey metal, Paul.

Not zinc ................... I think greyed brass.

Not too easy to tell.

Non-magnetic though.

[Robin Lumsden]

Original trial matrix, by Albin Scheer, Berlin .....................

Original trial matrix from Spring 1945, by Albin Scheer, Berlin ...............................

Edited December 15, 2015 by Robin Lumsden

[Robin Lumsden]

So, the Souval copy wasn't a bad attempt !!

Old boys' network !   His pal got it first !!

[Robin Lumsden]

Problem posting pix in the above two posts .......................  ......................... but you get the general idea.

Here's the other trial matrix by Scheer, from 1945 ........................

 

................. and the contemporary Reichskanzlei paperwork ......................

Balkan and Warsaw prototypes together ..................... both by Scheer, Spring 1945.

[Robin Lumsden]

In summary ..............................................

[J Temple-West]

Wow, and wow...Robin. A fantastic bit of research.

[Robin Lumsden]

Thanks John.

[Robin Lumsden]

It was probably meant to be a bronze-coloured  shield .................. like the Krim and Kuban ..................

Krim ................... Kuban ......................... Warschau ...................... all  BRONZE  ??................................  

[Robin Lumsden]

Traces of bronze ...................................