Yankee Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Hey Mike,Who needs the girls in mini skirts when you have a good book to keep you company (ok... I'll owe you a BIG one for this)Well.... at least this will let me know whether they were wartime awards or the 'Thank you for visiting our country' awards... Well.. that might answer a question that Brian had...... that means the pic could be as late as 1912.. with the trifold ribbon in wearCheersMarkAhhhh even better to read a good book on medals to the girls in mini skirts certainly be a first for them then one will say wow what a cool hobby mike . Where are all the women in this hobby Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 Ahhhh even better to read a good book on medals to the girls in mini skirts certainly be a first for them then one will say wow what a cool hobby mike . Where are all the women in this hobby BrianHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Why didn't I think of that..... Good one BrianCheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Gents,Please don't take 1920 as a precise date. Some had copied what they saw foreign officers wearing etc. It's just that around 1910-20 it starts to be the norm to use medal bars.On Mark's picture:Around the neck: Dannebrog, Grand CommanderOn chest:Dannebrog, Silver Merit CrossDenmark, Commemorative medal for 2nd Danish-Prussian war 1864Greece, Order of the Redeemer, KnightUnknown, maybe Russian?Is this Christian IX or Frederik VIII? (they both wore these kind of orders)He is wearing a foreign Grand Cross sash and Star (maybe in connection with a state visit?)/MikeHay fellowsFound a picture exactly like the one posted by Mark of King Christian lX wearing his decorations in my only book on Denmark. Clearly see the Silver Cross, campaign medal and the Redeemer good eyes mike. So what is missing is that 4th order. I think your right in being Russian and would venture to say a Saint Vladimir which would go to a ruling Monarch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 OK, I spent some hours at the library and this is what I came up with...Note that the month/year heading of each section is not the date of the award but indicates how his award list looked at that specific time.(each new section only lists additions or changes to the previous section)September 1901:Denmark, Order of Dannebrog (Knight) (18. Sept. 1901)1903:Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Greifen Orden (Knight)1906:Sweden, Order of the Sword (Knight 1. class)January 1908:Anhalt, Albrecht der B?r (Knight 1. class)Russia, Order of St, Anne (3. class)January 1909:Denmark, Order of Dannebrog, Silver Merit Cross (14. Jan. 1909)1912:Sweden, Order of Vasa (Commander)January 1913:Oldenburg, House- and Merit Order ('Offizierskreuz')April 1919:Denmark, Order of Dannebrog (-> Commander) (18. April 1919)April 1922:France, Legion d'Honneur (Commander)April 1925:Italy, Order of the Crown (Commander 1. class)Netherland, Oranje-Nassau Order (Commander 1. class)September 1928:Denmark, Order of Dannebrog (-> Grand Cross) (26. Sept. 1928)1934:Belgium, Order of the Crown (Grand Cross)Finland, Order of the White Rose (Commander 1. class)Finland, "Skyddsk?rernas F?rtj?nstkors"___So his Oldenburg Cross was awarded before WWI so no wartime award (it was awarded in the second half of 1912), but you still have to find out if swords were added for military recipients. The same goes for the Anhalt award and the Russian St. Anne, doesn't it? Furthermore, we don't know if his St. Anne cross was awarded with bows or crowns or whatever they use over there... But I would say an educated guess would be a standard St. Anne with or without swords...NB! NB! NB! A note about the some of the orders and their classes:The lists I use to check his awards are not exactly easy to interpret. In a list from 1903 the possible Mecklenburg Greifen Order awards are plainly listed as:M.Gr. 1, 21, 22, 3, 4, 5 (no indication of what the classes are called)In this volume he is listed as having a M.Gr.4In a list from 1922, the Greifen Order is listed as:M.Gr. 1, 2a, 2b, 2c, 3*, 3 = Grosskreuz, Grosskomtur, Komtur, Ehrenkreuz, Ritterkreuz mit Krone, Ritter.In that volume he is listed as having a M.Gr.3 = Knight without crown.I guess 'Ehrenkreuz' is the same as Offiziersteckkreuz. At least that would get it in sync with my Nimmergut list.For the Anhalt award, the list from 1908 shows:A.A.B. 1, 21, 22, 31, 32 = Grosskreuz, Komtur mit Stern, Komtur, Ritter 1. klasse, Ritter.In this volume he is listed as having a A.A.B.31 = Knight 1. class.His Oldenburg Order is the Offizierskreuz (listed very specifically...).The Russian Order of St.Anne is listed as:R.St.A. 1, 2, 3, 4 = 1., 2., 3., and 4. class.He is listed as having a R.St.A.3 = 3. class.I hope this clears things up a bit regarding some of the orders (I was getting a bit confused myself...)The other awards should be precise./Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share Posted May 5, 2007 Hey Mike,WOW You have gone above and beyond on this one..... your going t ohave to let me know how I can return the favor !!I did a little research on the St. Anne... and it appears that the swords were added for military action (i.e. valor) so I'm ok with no swords for that one.The Mecklenburg Griffen knight is ok....The Anhalt Bear without swords is what I'm thinking as from what I can find the swords were also for military action....The Oldenburg is going to be a guess.... I know of one other collector that I can forward this too for his advice....I'm still waiting for the answer for the Dutch Orange Nassu (posted on another thread)... but I have the fear that one will require swords (urgg..... )...Now.. one question.... you had stated before that he was awarded the Dannobrog Commander 1st class (neck and star)... but in this last listing.. he is only listed as Commander ?Time for you to take a break.. and enjoy the mini skirts.... or... better yet.... come to Florida and enjoy the 90 degree heat and babes in bikinis. I'll even buy the beers !Cheers Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Ooops... my mistake...InsertDenmark, Order of Dannebrog (-> Commander 1. class) (unknown date)under the April 1925 heading.And thanks for the tempting invitation /Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share Posted May 5, 2007 Hey Mike,What era is this one ... old or new ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share Posted May 5, 2007 Reverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Probably made by Michelsen (is there a 'AM' hallmark on it?).This type is not so unusual to find.A privately made Cross most likely from the beginning of the 20th century (embroidered crosses were in use until 1909 - anyone who wanted a metal piece had to have one made by a jeweler and many chose Michelsen who would later become the supplier of the official metal crosses)./Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Mark,If you're looking for an official cross for Nyholm, then these two models were both in use at the time Nyholm became Commander 1. class:Note the faceted interior and the two different rims. Also note the standardized lettering and crown (also seen on the privately purchased type you posted) which is typical for Michelsen.P.S: The cross at the right is for sale by a dealer (but has a small enamel damage in the upper left corner)/Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share Posted May 5, 2007 (edited) Hey Mike,I'm willing to take items with enamel damage as long as the price reflects the condition. Can you send me a PM with the dealer who has it ?What is the going rate for these and the Commanders badges ?? I know you mentioned 2000-2500 for a set.... but I'm only finding singles.... and the cross I posted had a price of almost $1800 USD.......Seems the Commanders that I'm finding run between $850 and $1100 USD... all posted from dealers so I'm sure that there is a significant profit.Also... the silver cross cleaned up very nicley.. looks much better now than when I first got it....... It's amazing what a belt sander with 100 grit sand paper and a buffing wheel can do CheersMark Edited May 5, 2007 by mravery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 PM sent (and no, I have no connection with the dealer )Going rate for official crosses is around $1100-$1200 (normal condition) and around $900-$1300 for a Christian X Commander badge (depending on whether it is gold or silver gilt)./Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share Posted May 5, 2007 (edited) Thanks Mike !!With all your help.. I might be able to actually put this one together ...... and you can bet I'll post some pics when I'm done !Also.... (no rush on this)..... in your spare time (when your not oglling at the ladies in mini skirts).and if you have some 'stock pics'......... I have not been able to find any pics of officers or generals showing how the neck orders are worn over the right side of the tunic. I'm assuming that the Dannenbrog commander would be worn at his neck..... and then the others on the right side.Cheers and thanks !!!Markp.s...... hurry and make plans to visit Florida ! Edited May 5, 2007 by mravery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Hey Mike,I'm willing to take items with enamel damage as long as the price reflects the condition. Can you send me a PM with the dealer who has it ?What is the going rate for these and the Commanders badges ?? I know you mentioned 2000-2500 for a set.... but I'm only finding singles.... and the cross I posted had a price of almost $1800 USD.......Seems the Commanders that I'm finding run between $850 and $1100 USD... all posted from dealers so I'm sure that there is a significant profit.Also... the silver cross cleaned up very nicley.. looks much better now than when I first got it....... It's amazing what a belt sander with 100 grit sand paper and a buffing wheel can do CheersMark Good one. Medal cleaning kit w/ belt sander got one too last Christmas There are people who due clean their medals and destroy them in the process, saw a Saxon badge in the German State forum totally unrecognizable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 Hey Guys,Well.. got another question answered...He was awarded the Oldenburg Officer's cross on May 24, 1912 as Chief of Engineers.And... it was WITHOUT swords... Wooooo.... hooooo.... CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Concerning your grand-commanders badge, what you called the Commander 1st class of Orange Nassau.If he was still militairy at that time, he would certainly have been awarded the grand commander with swords!In any civic attire, simply the grand commander (with leaves instead of swords)Kind regards,Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 Hey JackyThanks for this..... and you just made my job that much harder to complete I don't think I have ever seen a Grand Commander's badge with swords for sale.. anywhere..... Urggggg....Any thoughts ?CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 (edited) Weather is cloudy today, so no more ogling... These two gentlemen are the best I could find.First one is Major-General (Artillery) Ejvind Koefoed and the other is Navy officer Hans Peter Holm.As you can see, Koefoed has mounted his Commander badges on a trifold ribbon while Holm is using a more 'neck type' style (no, don't ask me how they are actually attached because I have no idea... ).Although regulations recommend that no more than two Commander badges should be worn around the neck at a time, 99% of the photos I looked at had only one. If wearing two badges around the neck and Dannebrog being one of them, Dannebrog should be on top according to regulations.Also, on all the photos I've checked no more than 2 Commander badges are worn on the top right side of the tunic - the rest is mounted down the side like on Holm's photo (note that a Navy tunic's buttons are closer together than on an Army tunic, but I think you get the idea)/Mike Edited May 7, 2007 by Great Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 Hey Mike,Sorry about the cloudy weather... I can control a few things.. but I have not mastered weather yet The pics are a great help.. also knowing that only two were ever worn over the top and the rest down the side will be a big help.I'm assuming that the Order of Vasa and French LoH would be on the right and the Order of the crown and the Oranje Nassau down the right side (based on when they were awarded )?Cheers !MarkAlso.. just forwarded a PM to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Actually, I don't know what the rules are (if any) for which Commander badge goes where (apart from the Dannebrog going around the neck), so that's an open question...Another thing: Koefoed was also awarded the Netherlands Oranje-Nassau order (Commander grade), and he is wearing it with swords on his right chest beside the Swedish Order of the Sword.So that confirms what Jacky said (not that I doubted it though... )/Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 Hey Mike,Ok.. new question for you What is the width of the ribbons on the medal bar ??Sometimes I have noticed that the medal bar ribbons are narrower than the standard ribbons... I just want to make sure what they are before I order them.CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 OhMike,while your at it.... can you measure the sides of the ribbon (mounted) so that I can get some idea of the dimentions of the ribbon and bar once it's folded and mounted.CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 (edited) The width of the ribbon is 27mm (has varied over time between 25 and 30mm but my mounted bars from the 1920s are 27mm).I have measured some dimensions shown below. The total length of the ribbon (measured while mounted) is 230mm, but you may want to experiment with, say, a paper ribbon before you start ordering ribbons.It is important to make the fold on the reverse (see picture). Without it you can't get a horizontal top (try it and see for yourself).Also note that the back vertical (double layered) part of the ribbon goes all the way down because the hook is mounted on this part.Let me know if you want more measures./Mike Edited May 8, 2007 by Great Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 Hey Mike,Thanks !Looks easy enough..... we shall see how it goes....CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 Hey Mike,Any chance that the last medal on his medal bar.. is actually a Red Eagle 4th class ??Perhaps the roles are wrong.. and it's not a Albert the Bear but rather a RAO ?Whatcha think ?CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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