Soviet Order of the Red Star

[Guest Rick Research]

I never get to any shows beyond driving range of New England. And there are no "shows" in New England.

I think prices have overbalanced as well, particularly for things like Red Stars and Red Banners that are NOT in documented groups and NOT researched. After all, there were close to 4 MILLION Red Stars, and almost 600,000 Red Banners!!! There is not even the "bullion excuse" most often used for Lenins (equally NON-RARE, simply materials have scrap value).

Sure, individual variants may be rare or scarce, but the average run of the mill "on its own" ORS or ORB should NOT be where they are.

As in any other collecting area, higher prices to start up keep beginners out. Which LIMITS the market, rather than expanding it. It's that old Goose And Golden Egg thing. Ever increasing numbers of ever better fakes are certainly doing to Soviet what has happened to Third Reich stuff.

I remember 10 years ago when a loose "eh" Red Banner could be had for 35 dollars, and sort through the pile to pick your own. There is no REASON why a loose and "nothing" serial numbered (presumably) mere post-war long service one (not researched, alone) should now be 100 dollars plus and everything else up from THERE.

It's disheartening. I'm just glad I got what I did when I did!

[Gerd Becker]

I never get to any shows beyond driving range of New England. And there are no "shows" in New England. 

I think prices have overbalanced as well, particularly for things like Red Stars and Red Banners that are NOT in documented groups and NOT researched. After all, there were close to 4 MILLION Red Stars, and almost 600,000 Red Banners!!! There is not even the "bullion excuse" most often used for Lenins (equally NON-RARE, simply materials have scrap value).

Sure, individual variants may be rare or scarce, but the average run of the mill "on its own" ORS or ORB should NOT be where they are.

As in any other collecting area, higher prices to start up keep beginners out. Which LIMITS the market, rather than expanding it. It's that old Goose And Golden Egg thing. Ever increasing numbers of ever better fakes are certainly doing to Soviet what has happened to Third Reich stuff.

I remember 10 years ago when a loose "eh" Red Banner could be had for 35 dollars, and sort through the pile to pick your own. There is no REASON why a loose and "nothing" serial numbered (presumably) mere post-war long service one (not researched, alone) should now be 100 dollars plus and everything else up from THERE.

It's disheartening. I'm just glad I got what I did when I did!

←

I agree completely, Rick.

Well i bought a Type 3 Red Banner a few days ago for 81 Euro

CollectRussia has a Nakhimov 2nd class for 28.000 Dollar

[Wild Card]

Hi Rick & Gerd,

Your responses to my comments both raise very valid points.

Gerd, I did not mean to imply that the ?New Russian? wealth and attitudes are the sole reason for the prices that we are seeing; but I do believe that they are a significant contributing factor, especially with regard to the high end items. Your example of the extended availability of the two groups on CollectRussia has has not escaped my attention for the reason which you state. At the same time time, I am aware of two pieces which sold for six figures each before returning to The Motherland. That along with observations of activity at European auctions and conversations with, I think, influential individuals in this area are upon what I based my statement.

Rick, your main point far transcends this thread; and, I would guess, to varying degrees applies to every aspect of collecting in this forum. My main collecting interest is Imperial German orders and decorations and that area certainly is not immune from skyrocketing prices as well. I can remember all too well prices back when I started collecting over twenty years ago. Things that I could only wish for back then look like unbelievable bargains today. Then I look at catalogs from the late sixties and really get` sick.

It?s too easy to say that it?s all relative... inflation, and all that. I too, and I hope others as well, am very concerned about the prices keeping potential collectors (of all ages) away.

Lastly, the plethora of Soviet fakes has considerably dampened my enthusiasm for collecting Soviet as well; and, as you said, I too am glad that I got what I did when I did. Sad.

Regards,

Wild Card

Edited August 25, 2005 by Wild Card

[Gerd Becker]

Wild Card,

you are right, of course, they are for sure a significant factor for the price increase and they have bought pieces before for crazy prices, but that can?t justify these insanity. My comment wasn?t only directed at you, but to many others, who said similar things lately. Of course, there are several other factors, who lead to the prices increase.

Its only a matter of time(even if it takes decades), that the market will break down, as only a handful of collectors will be able to afford something at all. I am happy with common stuff, but i wouldn?t mind to add some rarer Orders to my collection. I am only a small-budget collector and the most collectors don?t have that much money available for their hobby.

best,

Gerd

Edited August 25, 2005 by Gerd Becker

[andy]

Hi

I have a couple of theese awards and did not realize until I came across this thread that they could be sort of dated. Can anyone let me know the approximate issue dates of these.

the one on the left is 1897884

the one on the right is 264996

Many thanks

andy

[andy]

the backs

[Gerd Becker]

Andy,

after my database, the first one (1.897.884) is from May/June 1945 and the second one (264996) is from September/October 1943.

best,

Gerd

[andy]

Many thanks thats brilliant

regards

andy

[Guest Rick Research]

Wartime numbers are a mess, but those are good estimates. After the war, the 1950s+ ones settle down to chronological and nuemrical matching again.