WW1 Tank badge sold on e-bay the other day

[Peter C]

Came across this WW1 tank badge that sold the other day on e-bay.

Was curious to see what people think original or fake.

Not one I have seen before but may have actually been original.

Unfortunatly these are the only photos I have.

Regards

Peter

[Gaffken]

Peter,

I'll be the first to admit that I don't own one of these either and am thus no expert, but after seeing many a good pilot badge, I'm struck odd by the high placement of the pin on this badge, along with the pin 'well'. Seems very high and off the mark to me, though it appears consistent with the rest of the badge being struck off-center. My concern would thus lay in whether this would have legitimately passed a quality control test by the maker during the period if it were real--maybe someone else here would know better on that one (?).

As far as details of the tank pictorial on the obverse, I've become accustomed to looking for certain facets that appear lacking here, including details of faces on the skulls under the tank's treads, and a viewport often seen in the center of the pilot house on top of the tank. Just some observations...

Hope this helps,

Gaffken

[Peter C]

Gaffken

Thanks for the comments.

I saw this badge a few weeks ago on e-bay and down loaded the pics for reference.

You see a lot of very bad copies come up for sale but this one I thought looked at least half decent and worth of a closer look however I see what you mean about the hinge and lack of detail on the skulls so like you said one for the fake files.From memory sold for around $400 to $500 US so one to watch out for.

For me I would only buy one that was a textbook Junker.

Regards

Peter

[Ed_Haynes]

Isn't it fair to assume that anything this immensely rare that comes up through eBay rather than through a reputable real dealer is 99.99996% surely fake?

[Peter C]

Ed

No not at all. I have seen some very nice pieces come up on e-bay over the years, and many fakes on dealers sites so the trick is to know what you are going to buy and do your homework. That is what I am trying to do by discussing this badge.

Friends of mine and myself have picked up some bargains over the years from e-bay.

Regards

Peter

[Stogieman]

The badge does not appear consistent with Juncker or Meybauer examples of a private-purchase badge. The mis-struck reverse is not consistent with either maker. Noe is the pin/hinge block.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Isn't it fair to assume that anything this immensely rare that comes up through eBay rather than through a reputable real dealer is 99.99996% surely fake?

Some really, really, really good things can be found on Ebay.

Best

Chris

[Christian J]

The badge does not appear consistent with Juncker or Meybauer examples of a private-purchase badge. The mis-struck reverse is not consistent with either maker. Noe is the pin/hinge block.

I believe you Mr. Stogieman got yourself a nice unmarked piece some weeks ago. Perhaps you would like to share your example?

[Robin Lumsden]

Ed

No not at all. I have seen some very nice pieces come up on e-bay over the years, and many fakes on dealers sites so the trick is to know what you are going to buy and do your homework. That is what I am trying to do by discussing this badge.

Friends of mine and myself have picked up some bargains over the years from e-bay.

Regards

Peter

I totally agree. eBay is a storehouse of out-of-the-woodwork gems.......if you take patience and know what to look for.

[Peter C]

I have found that you you can be lucky especially when the images are not that good.

For example I picked up this Junker pilots badge a few weeks ago from e-bay for $700 US, not cheap but not dealer price either.

My friend Mike K and I both thought is was worth buying as we felt that it had a high probability of being genuine, and it was. The seller also had several Imperial badges for sale, many of them we thought were suspect so that was probably another reason why there were no other bids.

When it arrived I was able to compare it to Mikes example with very good results. We also found that the original owner had scratched his name on the back as well which was an added bonus.

Regards

Peter

[Tiger-pie]

For comparison, below is an example of a cheap repro and then a "museum quality" repo.

Regards;

Johnsy

Edited June 25, 2007 by Tiger-pie

[Stogieman]

Peter's Juncker Pilot Badge is quite original. The seller has been piece-mealing a very nicer Imperial collection out for about 6 months. Never more than a few pieces. 90% good, from what I've seen. He's sold a number of aviation badges, a Meybauer Imperial Tank Badge and some of the nicest EK 1's to come out on the US Market in a number of years. Literally good enough stuff where it's worth waiting for the truly exceptional... that's not to say his "run of the mill" is bad, but why buy good stuff, when you can buy great stuff?!!

I agree with Mike, there were a couple of hard to read ones, but even at that, he still has several authentic aviation badges that were quite real with no takers even below "market" prices....

[Peter C]

You are right

The seller had many nice and sometimes rare EK1's, Mike bought 1 or 2 of them.

His prices were also reasonable not give away but quite a bit less than dealer.

He is also a nice guy and they all came from his own collection.

When I say that many of his badges were sustpect I was refering to some of his aviation badges that he had for sale at the time I bought my Junker.

He had several Bavarial badges all which had the semi circular scoop around the hinge.

From what I have read these are contensions, same as the half moon and crown marked Junker badges that many collectors and dealers say are OK and the others say they are bad, so I decided to leave them alone.

Regards

Peter

[Ralph A]

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[Ralph A]

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[Deruelle]

What a beauty Ralph Is there one hallmark on the reverse ?

Christophe

[Ferg1]

Hi Ralph,any chance of seeing a pic of the reverse with pin up,mainly the pin actually. That would be interesting. Ferg1.

[Ralph A]

Here you go.

[Ferg1]

Thanks Ralph, that's interesting reference,Ferg1

[WWIJunky]

Greetings all...background: I have been studying WWI for about 30 years, and have acquired many WWI items during that time(purchased and found on WWI battlefields), including just such a badge (see attached photo).

I found it at a Mons, BE outdoor market in 1983 just before I was scheduled to leave my assignment at SHAPE HQ. I purchased it for 30 BF (around 8$, US). At the time I believed it to be an original, and rare...only 100 tanks were used by the Germans in WWI, 80 of which were captured British tanks, and the remainder German-built A7Vs...the latter is pictured on the badge. I figure about 1000 of these badges were awarded...18 crewmen/A7V and 8/captured British tank.

The badge I have has a maker's mark on the back..."Zeitner Berlin", plus what appears to be a small additional mark between the maker's mark and the hasp...looks like two stacked triangles or a barbed spearhead. As an aside, Herbert Zeitner was Herman Goring's favorite silversmith.

I have other photos, but haven't quite figured out how to put on more than one attachment at a time. Cheers!

[Ferg1]

I have seen several of these badges with the Zeitner MM on the reverse all of which were cast from lead and obviously fake, interested to know what yours is made from, is it solid or hollow? Ferg1.

[WWIJunky]

Hi Ferg...first, thanx for the reply. The badge is solid and appears to be made of pewter. I tried some TarnX silver only polish on the back but that didn't do much. I then tried an all-metal polish and it shines up like some other pewter things I have...nice and bright. WWIJunky

[elbavaro]

Well ... found this thread today by accident.

 

Withou seeing the front of Ralphs I can't judge it, but all other tank badges are fakes.