Please help finding recipient of WW1/2 german medal bar

[militaria0815]

Today i got a medal bar from a collector friend who purchased it from the family of the winner. Unfortunately no one knew who was the winner. I would appreciate any information concerning following questions:

- Is there a chance to find out the winners' name, I think, it must have been a Navy officer or NCO from one of the eight ships which have been involved in the Venezuela battle in 1902/03

- How many of the Schwarzburg-Sondershausen 3rd class crosses w swords were awarded

- What has happened in Deutsch-Neuguinea ion 1913/14 that caused to the award of this bar?

Thanks!!

[militaria0815]

Backside

[militaria0815]

Details of the bars

[Guest Rick Research]

Sure.

Rudolf Grossmann

born 14 November 1880

Navy from 1 October 1900

Marine Zahlmeister Aspirant 15.11.04

Marine Zahlmeister 18.4.08

Marine Oberzhalmeister 31.8.12

Marine Stabszahlmeister 22.2.20

Korvettenkapit?n (V) 1.7.35 #1

Fregattenkapit?n (V) 1937-38

He was interned at Guam until April 1917, when he and the rest of the crew of SMS "Cormoran" became American prisoners of war there.

He continued on in the post-war Reichsmarine, receiving ALL of his awards AFTER his return--

Iron Cross 2nd Class, Schwarzburg Honor Cross 3rd Class X, "Elephantenorden," and 2nd bar to his Colonial Medal, as well as the XXV Years Service Cross (double time for service outside German home waters and for war service).

The last Kriegsmarine Rank List I have is 1937, when he was Administrative Officer on the staff of North Sea Station...

but obviously he was still serving during the war.

He was not a member of the MOV or MOHeV.

As of 1.1.39 he was living at Herbartstrasse4 16, Wilhelmshaven, with his wife Paula-Maria (born 15.1.XX)

I will make scans of Rank List pages.

In 1918 he just shows the "box" emblem of prisoners, and no awards. It is only in the Reichsmarine lists that his decorations are shown.

He was certainly the most travelled paymaster I've seen a group for! I have quite a weaknesss for Zahlmeisters, since I have the Nachlass of Konteradmiral (V) August B?ning (1891-1964)-- the most highly decorated paymaster.

[HeikoGrusdat]

just a short comment today............................................GREAT BAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Rick Research]

Grossmann in the 1918 Imperial Navy Rank List (from Paul C's Rank Lists CD-- saves considerable wear and tear on my original 1918)

And from the 1926 Reichsmarine list, where his awards magically appear with the vague "elephant = any colonial award" device:

[Guest Rick Research]

The 1931 Reichsmarine list helpfully has "Elephant 1 & 2" for the Elephant Order and the Colonial Medals (nothing to indicate which bars--note abbreviations for CHINA and SOUTHWEST AFRICA Medals added for officers above him, 1= combatant, 2= steel, but "2" ONLY for the 1912 Kolonialdenkm?nze since ALL of those were combatant-only)

So there you go: the ONLY naval officer with the 1914 EK2/SE3X pair, and the ONLY officer who could have had BOTH those naval-only Colonial Medals bars.

[Guest Rick Research]

His Navy Honor Rank List entry, again from Paul C's Rank Lists CD (saves cracking the spine on this enormous volume)

I was quite surprised to see Schwarzburg awarding decorations after the war. The Principality of Hohenzollern did, but then the Prince was a great guy, and his son was aboard the famous S.M.S. "Emden."

It will be VERY interesting to see what the Schwarzburg WW1 rolls contain, and when the last awards were made. (Hohenzollern was still taking care oif WW1 in 1947! )

[Guest Rick Research]

And finally, Grossmann and his colleagues in 1936:

Rank Lists after 1932 do not show any awards in the seniority sections.

[webr55]

Yes, but that was not his final rank: Rudolf Großmann made Kapitän zur See (V) # 1.4.1940. The Navy RL 1940 lists him as the ONLY administrative Kapitän zS. He held his job as Administrative Officer on the staff of North Sea Station until 1.07.1942 when he went zV. But he continued as director of the main library in Marineoberkommando Nord until 31.1.1945, when he went aD. Died 10.2.1960.

Edited May 11, 2021 by webr55

[Claudio]

Just a side not the Schwarzburg Honor Cross 3rd Class X shows the obverse on the medal bar (worn upsidedown).

Wonderful bar with a name (that's the most important!).

It looks like there are more Kriegsmarine medal bars that survived the wars and the post-war times, if compared to LW or Army bars... in my collection I have several senior officer KM-medal bars, comperatevely less army bars. Maybe they were kept ashore... Could be that the reason?!

Ciao,

Claudio

[Guest Rick Research]

Thanks for the rest of his story!

Maybe just because it is easier for us to identify naval bars, Claudio. After all, here was a case where NO awards listed produced a single possible "suspect."

And here BTW is a paymaster cadet insignia of Grossmann's that came with the medal bar:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=19742

[eitze]

Deutsch-Neuguinea 1913/14:

The bar was awarded for the Neumecklenburg-Expedition, which took place 14.12.1913 - 21.03.1914.

I think it was some sort of pacification campaign against rebellious natives.

My source lists this bar only awarded to Police units ???

But perhaps he was on the ship which transported them to a coast or somewhere else?

greetings

eitze

[militaria0815]

Gentlemen,

many many thanks to all of you, especially to Rick!!!! I am very happy that you unveiled the owner and dug out all the other information! Great!!!!

[Gensui]

Does anybody know, where this medal bar is now?

BR, Chris

[Gensui]

Still interested to get to know, where is beauty is!

 

BR, Chris