Indian WWI trios

[Ed_Haynes]

Just a few trios from the latest yatra which, though as yet naked and unbathed, may restore your hopes for WWI groups from India.

1- 2119 RFMN.HARAKMAN GURUNG. 2-3 GRKS. (note: 1914 Star)

2- 785 HAVR. JAIMAL SINGH, 33 PJBIS.

3- 1822 SEPOY KAPURA, 1/41/DOGRAS.

More to come.

[Ed_Haynes]

A few more, not narrowly defined trios, but . . . .

4- Clerk Ram Rakha, B.E.M.,M.W.S.

5- 3674 Sepoy Mahant Singh, 52-Sikhs

6- 2657 Sepoy Bajrang Singh, 3rd Gwalior I. S. Infantry

[Tiger-pie]

What exactly do they do with the ribbons over there? It seems as if many Indian groups are sans ribbon.

Regards;

Johnsy

[Ed_Haynes]

Until very recently, whatever scraps of ribbons that have survived decades of monsoon have been trimmed off by the primary medal wholesalers that trawl from village to village with limited knowledge and even more limited ethics, swooping up the goodies that find their way to the major dealers in Delhi and Mumbai. They usually come to market tied up in string. Only in the last few years have WWI groups not been sundered by metal (bronze going this way and silver that way).

This pattern holds even for post-1947 groups (see below for an idea as to how they come to us).

You have to get used to naked unbathed medals when do you Indian phaleristics.

[Guest Rick Research]

I wonder if those survivors mean the wearers outlived the Hunt brothers' mass meltdown?

Whats the unit on the clerk with the B.E.M? Now THAT would be a story!!!!!

[Michael Johnson]

Drool.

Especially the 41st Dogra trio. Probably a casualty, as they qualified for the IGS 1908.

[Ed_Haynes]

Drool.

Especially the 41st Dogra trio. Probably a casualty, as they qualified for the IGS 1908.

Not according to the CWGC site, but for Indians they are far less than 100%.

[Michael Johnson]

Not according to the CWGC site, but for Indians they are far less than 100%.

Not necessarily a fatality. Invalided out with wounds, perhaps.

I have a vague memory from Donovan Jackson that one company of the 41st were quarantined in Egypt due to mumps or some such, just long enough for them to miss the 1914 Star. I used to own a 1914-15 Star to a Jemadar in the 41st.

[Michael Johnson]

I wonder if those survivors mean the wearers outlived the Hunt brothers' mass meltdown?

Whats the unit on the clerk with the B.E.M? Now THAT would be a story!!!!!

Military Works Service

[Guest Rick Research]

Not exactly glamorous, so even MORE interesting. For lifesaving, perhaps? l

[Ed_Haynes]

Not exactly glamorous, so even MORE interesting. For lifesaving, perhaps? l

When I post it you'll see, but far more mundane, but with documents rarely seen.

[MCMH]

When I saw the BEM group in Delhi last year I went through the paper work, whilst the Commanders Commendations are there the MID and BEM certificates were not. At least from memory. I couldn't help but feel this was a damn shame. I was tempted to buy it myself, but left it and the 17th Dogras MC group.

[leigh kitchen]

I like the first trio, nothing beats the 1914 Star for me. 2-3 Ghurkas, there's a very nice photo of what appear to be two men, POWs from 3 GR posted here by Tony. http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=31206&hl=

[MCMH]

Yes, the good news as Ed says is that dealers in India are starting to realise that trios are worth something and so you are starting to see more of them. Quite a few still come with unnamed Victory Medals, as I believe one of these listed here mat do (I was offered them a few weeks before) but if the star survived with the BWM you can almost be sure the Victory was issued unnamed.

[Ed_Haynes]

While not nearly as common as the dealers (whether in India or the UK or elsewhere) would have us believe, I do think thst in isolated cases (to which there may or may not be an underlying pattern) unnamed WWI medals were issued. Yet a "group" with an unnamed BWM or an unnamed Victory as a part of a pair (not so much a trio, as Mark observes) ought to incite caution (flight?) unless the provenance is 100% solid (i.e., from the family).

[MCMH]

The majority of unnamed Victory Medals probably come from Indian State Forces, and a limited number of Indian Army Regiments (as yet unidentified due to lack of data). I would treat BWMs entirely differently, they are not encountered at all as frequently, and I have seen no pattern myself for their issue.

Any trio with an unnamed BWM is highly strange. It suggests that the two bronze medals were sold by a villager, who kept the BWM given it's silver content. A dealer would have subsequently added the unnamed BWM to complete it.

Given the number of 'bronze' pairs appearing I would be highly sceptical of any similar 'trios'. If one does want to acquire one which has an unnamed BWM do so based on where the unit served to qualify for the Star, and haggle hard on the price.

I might add that 'bronze' pairs are lucky to have survived, and not been turned into a copper pot, but the BWM (even when unnamed) should be considered as a gap filler until sufficent regimental data suggests otherwise.