Heer Two ribbon bars

[Laurens Q]

Hello all,

May I have your opinion on these two ribbon bars, please? I am not completely sure regarding the 1939 Spange as I have no other examples to compare with.

As for the second bar, it has two different devices and comes with two Romanian ribbons. Any concerns?

Thanks,

Laurens

[Laurens Q]

Detail:

[Laurens Q]

#2:

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Laurens Q

Welcome to the forum, can you add pictures of the rears of the ribbon bars please, this sometimes helps to determine if the bars are recent put togethers.

The second bar has the Romanian ribbon of Military Virtue used in connection with the Crown or Star of Romania awards and the Crusade Against Communisum 1941 Medal ribbon, these were freely bestowed to German troops in Romania and on the Russian Front alongside Romanian Military units at Stalingrad and the Crimea Campaign.

Kevin in Deva (Transylvania).

[Laurens Q]

Hello Kevin,

My bad for not showing the reverses right away...

So for the second bar, the combination of the two Romanian orders is possible in combination with the (probable) 4 and 12 yrs. service ribbons and no Eastern Front ribbon? The Eastern Front medal was relatively easy to receive, but I don't know about the two Romanian awards...

Cheers,

Laurens

[Laurens Q]

and another detail from the reverse:

[Carol I]

So for the second bar, the combination of the two Romanian orders is possible in combination with the (probable) 4 and 12 yrs. service ribbons and no Eastern Front ribbon? The Eastern Front medal was relatively easy to receive, but I don't know about the two Romanian awards...

The Order of the Star of Romania and the Order of the Crown of Romania were reserved for officers. The Military Virtue ribbon indicates bravery in the face of the enemy.

[Guest Rick Research]

That is an IMMACULATE Bremen (E) officer's bar. We have never been able to identify "TZ" the maker of that metal backing. From the swords in the Hindenburg Cross on that one, it dates after 1942 or so, when "economy model" one piece stamped swords came into universal use.

The other bar simply has a replaced eagle. Probably the second one.

As a new probationary member you can't see full sized detailed images, but when your participation here gets you to that level, click on "Gallery" at the top of the main website page, which takes you over to the permanent section. Look in the Ribbon Bars section and you will see hundreds of devices and photos

some with very bad, very naughty, very WRONG original period mistakes

just like your second ribbon bar.

As a probationary member I think they will only show in little preview size now.

[CRBeery]

Is that not an EK1 spange type eagle on the first ribbon? I have only noticed that on 2 bars now.

How common are they?

[Laurens Q]

The Order of the Star of Romania and the Order of the Crown of Romania were reserved for officers. The Military Virtue ribbon indicates bravery in the face of the enemy.

As it indeed seems they (Order of the Star and Order of the Crown) were awarded to officers, then I'm still troubled by the lack of the Eastern Front medal. Could it be that this person served on a homefront, although the presence of the Crusade against Communism ribbon? Or is that were you're pointing at, Rick, with the periodical mistake?

Thanks for all input so far!

Laurens

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

Can I add my tuppence worth with regards this.

How about the bar belonging to a soldier who did not fall into the criteria for the Eastern Front Medal?

The award dates were given as:

"The Ostmedaille was presented to all those who served on the Russian Front between 15 November 1941 and 15 April 1942."

However he could have got the Romanian medal for service with the Romanians after the 15th April 1942, 1943, 1944 depending on if the Romanian criteria was strictly adheared to.

Despite the Romanian Crusade medal being placed for sale on Ebay with crossed sword on the ribbon for combatants it would have been available for non-combatants, rear echelon etc..etc.,It was however awardes with an assortment of battle-bars.

Kevin in Deva.

[Carol I]

As it indeed seems they (Order of the Star and Order of the Crown) were awarded to officers, then I'm still troubled by the lack of the Eastern Front medal. Could it be that this person served on a homefront, although the presence of the Crusade against Communism ribbon? Or is that were you're pointing at, Rick, with the periodical mistake?

Laurens, as mentioned above, the Military Virtue ribbon for the Romanian orders indicates direct contact with the enemy and therefore a homefront activity would have qualified the recipient only for the war ribbon, not the full bravery ribbon. Of course, this does not exclude the use of the wrong ribbon on the bar.

P.S. I cannot comment on the other ribbons/awards on the bar.

[Guest Rick Research]

Kev's got it (sorry, I wandered off track there yesterday). Rumanian CAC Medals are often found in German groups without a 41/42 East Medal due to the ongoing eligibility of the Rumanian medal.

As far as what actual Rumanian Orders/Decorations are supposed to be on German ribbon bars-- the weirdest assortment of old outdated Stock On Hand was frequently used.

After picking up a Japanese Sacred Treasure somehow or other, this officer got TWO Rumanian (one a "Kleindekoration" for a Commander grade) and THREE Finnish Orders... without EITHER an East Medal OR a Crusade Against Communism Medal!!!!!

[Carol I]

As far as what actual Rumanian Orders/Decorations are supposed to be on German ribbon bars-- the weirdest assortment of old outdated Stock On Hand was frequently used.

Romanian orders changed ribbons well before WWII, so the manufacturers should have had enough time to update their stock. As far as I remember, none of the ribbon bars seen used old-style ribbons, so I would rather think that the result was mainly caused by the "creativity" of the manufacturers, not their stock.

After picking up a Japanese Sacred Treasure somehow or other, this officer got TWO Rumanian (one a "Kleindekoration" for a Commander grade) and THREE Finnish Orders... without EITHER an East Medal OR a Crusade Against Communism Medal!!!!!

I wonder why the Romanian ribbons have swords on them...

[Guest Rick Research]

Germans almost always put swords on EVVVVVVVVVERYTHING "foreign and exotic"-- whether they were supposed to or not!

[Carol I]

Germans almost always put swords on EVVVVVVVVVERYTHING "foreign and exotic"-- whether they were supposed to or not!

Manufacturer's creativity in action...