A bit of help indentifying awards please

[David F]

Hi guys,

I have just received this postcard and the man is wearing 2 awards from his buttonhole.

One is the EK 2nd class but could someone tell me what the otherone is and what it was awarded for?

And can anyone help me with what it says on the back?

Many thanks

David F

[David F]

and the reverse

[Guest Rick Research]

He is wearing the simplified M1910 of the first year of the war. From his buttonhole beside the EK2 is the Bavarian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with Crown and Swords (BMVK3XmKr) granted as an initial award to NCOs holding the Imperial army rank of "Sergeant" (yes, that title in German).

The stamp is from Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment 21. Oddly, he is clutching an ARTILLERY sword. His return address (upside down across the center as you have posted it) identifies him as Offizier-Stellvertereter Luger of Regimental Staff/Bav Res Inf Rgt 21. It is addressed to Sofie Luger in Regensburg.

Because of the bright flash and poor contrast-- or the faded original-- I cannot get every single word.

But it is to Dear Sister Sofie in memory of something like his recent leave in Regensburg... from brother Franz.

"How goes it with you? Many greetings to your (female) colleagues..."

It would have been impossible to tell his rank without the Portepee on his sword, since Sergeants and Vizefeldwebels/Vizewachtmeisters wore the same uniform, distinguished only by officers cap cockades and sword knot for the higher rank. From his apparent age, I'd say he was a career NCO with the 8 years time in required for this wartime "Officer Deputy" rank. If he survived, having held this status for over a year, he'd have been discharged as a Leutnant aD by the Weimar government. Since he would have recived promotion from Sergeant to Vizewachtmeister/Vizefeldwebel almost immediately after the war started (6 years in required) to be an OffzStellv by 1916, that BMVK3XmKr must be a 1914 award... still not mounted up on a medal bar. He also likely held the 1911/12 Luitpold Jubilee medal as a Kapitulent career enlistee, so he's definitely "under-dressing" as far as awards go.

[Chip]

It would have been impossible to tell his rank without the Portepee on his sword,

Not to me! I can see the Offizierstellvertreter braid on his shoulder board and also the glint of a metal device. No doubt about the rank, even without the info on the back.

Chip

[Dave Danner]

He was not a Sergeant when he received the BMVK3XmKr. He was an Unteroffizier. His first name is Franz. The award was on February 15, 1915.

[Ulsterman]

He was not a Sergeant when he received the BMVK3XmKr. He was an Unteroffizier. His first name is Franz. The award was on February 15, 1915.

that's a pretty neat bit of research there-how'd you find his award date etc?

[Dave Danner]

that's a pretty neat bit of research there-how'd you find his award date etc?

The Bavarian Milit?r-Verdordnungsblatt has Beilagen which list awards of Bavarian decorations and of non-Bavarian decorations to Bavarians. It is a good resource because it is indexed and because it includes first names. It is cumbersome to use, though, because officers active in 1914 are listed by their prewar units, and officers commissioned during the war are often listed by unit, but often simply as "Reserve der Infanterie" or "Reserve der Artillerie", etc.

I've been using the MVB to find Iron Crosses and confirm some other awards missing from published rolls to update my Military Order of Max Joseph recipients list. This is made a little easier because I have the full name, units, and dates of rank already. The updated list should appear soon.

Thanks to Rick's reading of the card above, I had similar information for Luger - name, unit, approximate rank and timeframe for the award - so looking up Luger and eliminating other Lugers was relatively easy. Here is the entry for Luger and others from his unit decorated on the same day, as well as a couple other regiments:

Edited August 15, 2007 by Dave Danner

[Dave Danner]

Here are what the books look like. The July-December 1916 volume is the thickest book I have ever seen.

[David F]

Thanks for all the information guys!!

Being able to put a name to the face is what makes this hobby pleasing.

Thanks to Dave as well for the information on when he was awarded his medal.

I take it that the books are difficult to find and would be expensive to get when you find them??

[Dave Danner]

Thanks for all the information guys!!

Being able to put a name to the face is what makes this hobby pleasing.

Thanks to Dave as well for the information on when he was awarded his medal.

I take it that the books are difficult to find and would be expensive to get when you find them??

They are almost impossible to find outside of libraries, and then only in a few. Mine are on loan for my MMJO project.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Those are some ooooverly impressive volumes!!

[Ulsterman]

Wow!! You d' Man!

Dave-that is awesome. Does the series go throughout the war and (he hoped) to 1920s?

Are they NYC loaned?

The fact that these are out there gives one hope !

Edited August 16, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Dave Danner]

Wow!! You d' Man!

Dave-that is awesome. Does the series go throughout the war and (he hoped) to 1920s?

Are they NYC loaned?

The fact that these are out there gives one hope !

Stupid typos: Milit?r-Verordnungsblatt, not Milit?r-Verdordnungsblatt!

Personalien-Beilagen, where awards and promotions were listed, were published until 1919. I don't know if awards were published after 1918, though. There was a 1920 edition of the Milit?r-Verordnungsblatt which might have also had Personalien-Beilagen (during the war they were published in separate volumes), but I have not seen it.

Apparently to save space, in early 1917 they stopped publishing (i) all Iron Crosses and K?nig Ludwig Crosses, (ii) non-Bavarian decorations to enlisted soldiers and warrant officer-type ranks, (ii) Bavarian decorations to non-Bavarians, as well as to Navy and Schutztruppen. In the picture above, the huge volume is the second half of 1916. The size of that volume, which probably has 20,000 + KLKs and tens of thousands of EKs, is why they stopped publishing them.

[Djedj]

Bonjour,

Just a little snippet that does not seem to have been mentioned yet : you can say he belongs to the Reserve from the photograph : if you look at the cockade on the band of his Schirmm?tze, you can see it contains the Landwehr cross.

Cheers,

Jerome

(as always amazed bythe wealth of knowledge around).