Cut off swords on Spanish crosses

[Jacques]

Hello, what are your though about that topic.

jacques

[Jacques]

I checked all my files.

here are the crosses/ MM I found with cut off swords:

- JUNCKER: CEJ, CEJ 900, L/12, unmarked Juncker

- MEYBAUER: L/13, Coat of arms, coat of arms 900

- SCHICKLE: L/15

- DEUMER: L/11

Here are the crosses / MM I found from original die without sword:

- STEINHAUER: 4, L/16,

- FOERSTER & BARTH: L/21

- ZIMMERMANN: L/52

- unmarked soldered eagles

- unmarked one piece construction

May be you have in your files other MM samples. Please share them .

jacques

[Sal Williams]

Well it seems like if one was trying to hide the fact that the swords were cut off they would do a better job? The theory that some factories did not have a seperate die for no swords is helped by that I suppose. One would think a faker would make a much neater and then polished cut.

Best, Sal

[Jacques]

I do think that some dealers had a special die for the without sword crosses, and some other not. At which time the swords were cut, that's a question. In most cases I think directly by the manufacturer. It is well done, close to the circle and then polished. Sometimes the cut is more crude and it could habe been occured later by the period seller (shop).

There is no reason for a current dealer to cut swords on a bronze cross. But on a silver one, it could increase the price.

These one are crudely cut

[joe campbell]

jacques-

this - and essentially every thread you start -

are among the most informative and helpful

on ths site.

i've heard about swords being excised.

now i know.

many thanks!

joe

[Jacques]

Much obliged Joe.

Here is anothe pic of a silver spanish cross. The swords have been cut out and polished.

[Jacques]

Here is a silver cross from original without sword die.

[joe campbell]

love the meybauer MM.

when did they stop stamping this? with

the institution of the LDO? later?

thanks,

joe

[Jacques]

love the meybauer MM.

when did they stop stamping this? with

the institution of the LDO? later?

thanks,

joe

←

Hello Joe,

the Meybauer is not mine, I would like though.

This is an awarded piece in my opinion. They were produced up to 1941 and still sold after the LDO regulations to finish the stock I suppose. then replaced by the L/13. This is just a supposition because no text exist about it. As these crosses are of better quality/finish than the L/13, may be they were still available for special purchase. I don't really know.

jacques

[Sal Williams]

Much obliged Joe.

Here is anothe pic of a silver spanish cross. The swords have been cut out and polished.

←

Jacques can you give a side shot of the cut and polished one?

Thanks, Sal

[Jacques]

this one had the swords cut off, then edges polished. the eagles were positionned and 3 points soldered later.

[Bob Hunter]

Interesting pictures. Thanks Jacques.

[Jacques]

Look at this one as it has been well worked. the swords have been cut off and then polished both on the eagle's reverse and center medaillon. the swords were strong soldered to the eagles.

[Sal Williams]

Hi Jacques,

That could not have come out of the factory that way. Any manufacturer would not solder the eagles on until he had cut the swords off if the goal was to make some with mo swords. You don't think this one came that way do you??? Must have been a collector/faker who did that one. Do you agree?

Best, Sal

[Jacques]

[The swords could have been cut off by the period dealer. In this case, it seems to be very well done to avoid seing them from the obverse. I see no reason for a current faker to cut the swords. the pic is a little bit bright due to the flash , but I think the cross OK. On other crosses you still can see the color difference on the eagle's reverse where the swords where located. that can proove that the swords where cut off before the eagles placed or after. When, and in which condition ????

[Peter J]

Hi Jacques,

Here are two minis, one die-struck bronze Deumer in excellent condition. The pin has been removed and a suspension ring was attached for wear on chain (the ring has fallen off). The other is also die-struck, has a pin with curls that doesn't attract me, poor details and cut off swords. I don't like it a bit, so what's your opinion on this?

KR

Peter

[Jacques]

Hi Jacques,

Here are two minis, one die-struck bronze Deumer in excellent condition. The pin has been removed and a suspension ring was attached for wear on chain (the ring has fallen off). The other is also die-struck, has a pin with curls that doesn't attract me, poor details and cut off swords. I don't like it a bit, so what's your opinion on this?

KR

Peter

sorry for the delay. I don't like too much the pin. the color is very bright. But it is hard to be sure. I would say it odd.

jacques

[Jacques]

here is another spanish cross in silver of which the swords has been cut off and then the eagles' svastica slightly bent to give a convex form to the cross. the edges of the circle has been polished after the removal of the swords. Good job !