Hindenburg Cross Types

[speedytop]

Faithfulness for Faithfulness (Loyalty for the Loyalty)

Uwe

[Schwyz]

Thank you Uwe,

Treue um Treue is, I believe, a now somewhat dated idiomatic term long since unused, if I am correct.

German is not my first language and many older generation Germans I have asked did not seem to be able to offer a convincing translation, perhaps because in may have been a specialized term they were unfamiliar with in their youth - I'm sure their parents would have known though.

I did not want to give my suggestion regarding the translation until I heard from a native German speaker who had specific knowledge, so am pleased with your answer because it makes sense given what I thought it would/should be.

I have long thought the following longer version below to be near correct, but think your offering, albeit shorter, certainly has the same 'feel' and would probably be used more commonly than the longer version.

Treue um Treue = "Loyalty of the Reich for the people and Loyalty of the people to the Reich".

Treue um Treue = "Loyalty for the Loyalty' or 'Faithfulness for Faithfulness".

Gar

[speedytop]

Hi Gar,

I'm an older generation native speaking German man with a little bit specific knowledge. (what a construct!)

With "Treue um Treue" is meant "gegenseitige Treue" = mutual faithfulness/loyalty.

A short version is here definitely better than a longer construct.

Uwe

Edited November 7, 2011 by speedytop

[Schwyz]

Hello Uwe,

Now that I am able to get back on - was unable to get connected for a couple of days -

Thank you for the clarification - your interpretation is exactly what I was hoping for!

Now that I have someone who meets my 'qualifications', (you) - can I ask you if you know of any published article describing the Ehrenkreuz in detail - say in one of the militaria magazines in German or English? (I can struggle along in German - my family came from the Rheinland - but a long time ago).

I have an keen interest in this humble award, especially in learning more about the initial idea or formation of this award and how and when the idea of it came about. A 'Timeline' would be nice.

Any help will be gratefully received.

Gar

[speedytop]

Hi Gar,

there are many sources!

For example:

Orden-Militaria-Magazin, Nr. 44 Oktober 1991, page 17. With pictures of some cases.

Klietmann, Deutsche Auszeichnungen, 1971, page 27 - 31

Dombrowski, Orden, Ehrenzeichen und Titel des nationalsozialistischen Deutschlands, 1940, page 51 - 61

Other sources:

Hessenthal und Schreiber,

Doehle,

Littlejohn/Dodkins,

Angolia,

etc.

In German:

http://de.wikipedia....des_Weltkrieges

And in English:

http://en.wikipedia..../Cross_of_Honor

http://reviews.ebay....000000002182418

Uwe

[christerd]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2011/post-3473-0-09193800-1320927493.jpgHi all ,

Just wonder if anyone has a really early document to show ?

My earliest is to a Wilhelm Hulke from R FA Rgt 19 he got the FrontkämferKreuz 27th October 1934 living in Hannover

and doc numbered H 419/34 . Sorry for the very very small pic but I have the doc on the forum in another thread so if anyone want see a bigger pic I will load it up for you. :blush:

Edited November 10, 2011 by christerd

[Schwyz]

Greetings, Christerd,

Will be interesting to see the earliest dated example - you've got me beat!

My earliest

— Eltern — 25 Nov 1934

— Frontk — 1 Dez 1934

— Witwen — 26 Feb 1935

— Kreigst — 1 Jun 1935

My latest

— Frontk — 17 Jul 1940

Gar

[christerd]

Here is my latest purchase

The hardest to find box for Honor Cross ! The turtle coloured

I know that these boxes wheren´t given out officially , instead people bought them private. Like the EK I and EK II boxes. But they are insane expensive , since we collectors make the value ourselfs .....

I mean in reality a 1939 Knight Cross maybe have a silver value of ? 20-25$ but everyone pays a LOT more if we can afford it

Enjoy !

[christerd]

And of course the inside , with the cross itself

[Troy Tempest]

Excellent Christerd!

When I started this thread all those years ago, I tried to collect one of every maker in all three grades. I hit over 200 then changed my mind I now am only keeping my Ehrenkreuz fü Hinterbliebene (surviving dependents) crosses, some miniatures and parade mounted Frontkämpfers and Kriegsteilnemhers. I am also searching for cased examples, and I am very jealous of your latest! I am uncertain if you are still looking for photos of makers marks, if you are, let me know and I'll see if I have anything that can help your site records.

[Troy Tempest]

Bandschleife Frontkämpfer

[Troy Tempest]

Here is another of my Feldspange Frontkämpfer, I really like the tiny, although unofficial, combatants cross on the front.

[christerd]

_{Hallo Troy ,}

_{I am still very interested in pictures of different makers , since I changed website something went wrong in the change and all pictures got lost .....}

_{Now I am reworking the page , and most of the pictures I have possibility to take again , but all help with pics is appreciated.}

_{I just try to get as many makers as possible just from any version of the cross but that still is a quite impossible mission}

_{There seems to be makes mark that you never see at all in real life !}

_{So if you have pictures of makers , I ´ll be very grateful to show them on my site when I got it up and running again}

_{All the best from Sweden}

_Christer

[Troy Tempest]

Ok! Where would you like them sent to?

[Paul R]

I have never seen a cased Honor Cross before!! Well done!

[Troy Tempest]

Some of my miniatures

[Troy Tempest]

[lambert]

This is another example of German cross of honour. concentrate only on collecting them between groups.

Regards

Lambert

[lambert]

A very informative thread gentlemen. There is a lot more to this medal than I first thought. @lambert: interesting that there are buttons on the reverse for attaching instead of a pin. I have a ribbon bar that is quite similar. Best wishes Matt

This type of system and really quite unusual in groups of medals.

Could shows your example?

Lambert

[M Hunter]

This type of system and really quite unusual in groups of medals.

Could shows your example?

Lambert

Certainly Lambert, here it is. This ribbon bar belonged to a Luftwaffe Oberst.

Best wishes

Matt

[Troy Tempest]

This is another example of German cross of honour. concentrate only on collecting them between groups.

Regards

Lambert

Unfortunately, the medals are in the wrong order :angry:

[Troy Tempest]

Two more of my Miniaturen, the Ehrenkreuz für Hinterbliebene und Kreigsteilnehmer

[lambert]

The wrong order? I did not know!

which the correct order?

lambert

[Troy Tempest]

Sorry mate, I may be wrong, but from L-R, the number two medal looks like an Imperial type. If so, I think it should be in front of the KVK, as should the Ehrenkruez für Frontkämpfer. I think the KVK and the Deutsches Schutzwall-Ehrenzeichen should be last, at number 3 and 4. I'm sure an Ordensspange collector here could give better advice, but it's a nice bar!

[lambert]

Yes, is Friedrich August Medal.

Lambert