new world Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Igor is selling "Order of Lenin, Type 6, Var 1 (Leningrad Mint), #266371, with a document, 1954 issue." for $2,300! What's going on? Is there anything I am missing about this particular award? This is just common Lenin order, there's nothing rare about it.William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 This is just common Lenin order, there's nothing rare about it.WilliamTell me about it! Gotta love Capitalism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) What's going on? Is there anything I am missing about this particular award? This is just common Lenin order, there's nothing rare about it.Dear William,I guess, that 4 factors determine the price for an (ordinary) "Lenin":- actual market price for pure gold- exchange rate of the USD vs. EUR- the "Lenin" IS the highest order of the passed away CCCP, so the demand inside Russia is hughe- the design of the "Lenin" is of breathtaking beauty, so demand, demand .... For months, factors 1 & 2 are bitter reality AND the Russian collectors have money AND the "Lenin" is their national heritage.As an economist, I guess, that the price for one ounce of pure gold will be soon beyond USD 1.000,- and that the USD will never recover again - the future of the USA might be the role of a cheap resource of working power for Europe, China, Japan & India ... The present market reality is, that dealers ask about USD 2.000,- for an "Lenin" T5 / V1 (without documents!): http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18334 (exactly 14 years ago - january 1994 - I paid EUR 470,- for an identical "Lenin" s/n. 180.922 of the early 1950s - that "Lenin" has been the starting point of my modest & humble Soviet collection )Best regards Christian Edited January 9, 2008 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) "Lenin" bargains offered by Mr. RabkinGentlemen,if someone wants to deal with Eugene Rabkin http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=22590 , he offers two "Lenin" T6 (one with orders booklet, the other without) for mere USD 1445,- : http://www.russianglory.com/soviet_orders.htmBest regards Christian Edited January 9, 2008 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
order_of_victory Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Gosh, that makes the 700usd I paid for mine a bargin Order of Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Gosh, that makes the 700usd I paid for mine a bargin Dear Vic,that's true .I had been lucky to get an "Lenin" T6 / V2 s/n. 433268 from the 1970s - in absolute mint-condition (10/10) - in Vienna (in the year 2000!) for mere EUR 400,- .Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 2 nice "Lenins" with starting bid of USD 960,- at Dimitry's N.Y.-auction tomorrow morningGentlemen,Dimitry has two "Lenins" - T5 / V1 s/n. 99487 and a T6 with hand engraved serial number - both with a starting bid of USD 960,- (incl. all fees for the US-buyer) at his auction tomorrow morning at the "Waldorf Astoria", Park Avenue, New York City: http://www.russian-medals.net/ .Let's have a look, how the bidding will go on .I estimate the T 5 somewhere around USD 1.900,- and the T 6 around USD 1.400,- (incl. all fees) .Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 As an economist, I guess, that the price for one ounce of pure gold will be soon beyond USD 1.000,- and that the USD will never recover again - the future of the USA might be the role of a cheap resource of working power for Europe, China, Japan & India ... Hi Christian,I can see where some members might take offense to this. There is no need for this type of comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I can see where some members might take offense to this. There is no need for this type of comment.Dear Paul,you are right - economic commentaries without context to military history are not needed at GMIC .I want to excuse myself towards the citizens of the USA at GMIC, that I posted here a "might be" commentary about the future of your great nation, which has won (at least) the "Cold War" against the "Soviet Empire" in military history.If someone might be interested in the history of US-economics, please have a look into the numerous publications of the renowed US-economist John Kenneth Galbraith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kenneth_Galbraith . He was an important figure in Roosevelt's US-war-economics during WW II and published some great studies about the subject .Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Apology accepted, without further comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) As far as I'm concerned he's a price gouger and won't get a dime off me ... EVER He makes Kai Winkler look like a bargain giver ... Edited January 10, 2008 by Darrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 These awards historically were selling slightly above the price of the metal content.You have to keep in mind that there this type of Lenin (made by Leningrad and Moscow mints) were issued from 1950s to the end of Soviet Union. That's over 30 years and about 270,000 awards!!!Lots of these Lenins were melted into jewelry or dental crowns, but still - plenty of them survived.This award is not rare at all, there are always several for sale at any moment.BTW, currently price of Lenin is approaching $2000 in Russia, but still I think Igor went too high with this one.William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 These awards historically were selling slightly above the price of the metal content.Dear William,that had been really the reality in the 1990s and early 2000s - the price of the Lenins went up and down with the price of gold .At least Igor offers for USD 2k an Lenin T5 / V1 with the dimple on the av. ... Does anyone have any results of Dimitry's N.Y.-auction of today ?Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Auction wil take place in about 10 hours. I guess we will know the result in the next couple of days.William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) While I have not yet seen full results, I have been told:Screwback gold-head Lenin with document - $150,000Screwback silver-head Lenin - $43,250Regular screwback Lenin - $14,000So . . . for your next "hobby" . . . ???? Edited January 11, 2008 by Ed_Haynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 ...Screwback gold-head Lenin with document - $150,000...That is insane!Are you sure the number is accurate?William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 That is insane!Are you sure the number is accurate?WilliamNot completely, but this is what I was told. It was a lovely set, but THAT lovely?!?!?I gather most sales were to Russians. Anyone surprised?I hope the results will be available online some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Igor has one Golden Head for sale for $11,000.It's without document and number has been altered, but it's almost 15 (!!!!) less than the one sold last night.W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 ...and please don't forget that a (honestly quite rare) screwback Order of the Red Banner with "2" was sold at an auction of Thies in October 2007 for ? 15.000,- plus buyer's premium.Again, about Russia and its new phaleristic market, let's not forget for how much Russian Imperial orders are sold, lately. I'm not speaking about most rare orders, but simply the most common classes of the St. Stanislas Order...Excuse me for this nearly off-topic reply, but I cannot forget those days in the years 1987-1994, when many CCCP pieces were available for unrealistic (but interesting for us collectors) prices...Best wishes,Enzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) How about 500K (that's half a million $US w/o commission) for a magnificent very old Saint Anna with case?I was there and it was a very bumpy ride! Edited January 11, 2008 by Wild Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Garvy Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 As of this morning the $11K "Gold Head" has been sold. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 I think this is really the end of the road of Soviet collecting for most of ordinary collectors. Sad part is that now every seller out there will be using prices from that auction as reference point.This stuff makes German WW2 awards look like bargains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 This stuff makes German WW2 awards look like bargains.As they should be since the can't be researched and therefore have NO history to them.But, when you say. . . this is really the end of the road of Soviet collecting for most of ordinary collectors.you are dead on target. None of us stand a chance against Russian Mafia Money. I'm not so sad to see these things going Home, but I wish I were more certain they were going to collectiors and not just to investor-accumulators money boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 What makes no sense to me is that these prices are not SUSTAINABLE. This is like the Dutch "tulip mania" of the 17th century.As I've said before, when Things Go Boom, in the wild scramble for self-preservation and finding safe corners...NOBODY is going to pay these kinds of prices when the market floods with political/legal refugees.Paying 10... 50 ... 3,000 times what something is "worth" is clinically insane.At some point, when the music stops...there aren't going to be enough chairs."New money" just can't throw it away fast enough--the fools. The exact situation appears to be playing out in the (sniff) "fine arts" market. Your average old Impressionist is now going for the eight figures they brought with Japanese buyers in the 1980s.Yeah, THAT worked out well, didn't it? Me? I'd be buying my own private S.P.E.C.T.R.E. island someplace warm and pliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi, I've had a lot of fun, in the '80s-early '90s, collecting orders and decorations of the ex-USSR as a "divertissement" from my central collecting theme: Austria-Hungary. I agree that now I couldn't afford most of the then relatively cheap pieces.Now I'm afraid that when Russian collectors would have bought every tsarist and soviet piece, from the cheapest to the rarest one, they could decide to collect western european orders...Enzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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