Soviet Order of the Red Banner 2d Award

[Sal]

Was home on leave when I got a box of my old ODM from a friend.....and in it I found the Red Banner #2 (#3760) that I had forgotten about. Ironically, I sold the Red Banners I had but kept this one....thought I would throw it out here marinate on the multiple award Red Banners out there. I have no story with mine except that I got it for what would be a steal today.....but no history on it.

If you have them throw em up here and let's see......thanks

Edited February 4, 2008 by Sal

[Sal]

The reverse

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Tony,

very nice and well preserved item - with a rather low s/n. .

Might even be a type 3 / version 1 of the RB #2 .

Dealers are asking now about 2k bucks for such an order ...

Best regards

Christian

[Sal]

WOW....and to think I forgot I had it......

Thanks for the info Christian....I guess on some level I was smart to move the regular RBs and keep this one....Seems like the Red Banners now are commanding what I paid for this one.....craziness

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Tony,

Igor offers a RB #2 (but from a much later series!) for USD 2.600,-:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18371

Best regards

Christian

WOW....and to think I forgot I had it......

Thanks for the info Christian....I guess on some level I was smart to move the regular RBs and keep this one....Seems like the Red Banners now are commanding what I paid for this one.....craziness

[Paul R]

Dear Tony,

Igor offers a RB #2 (but from a much later series!) for USD 2.600,-:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18371

Best regards

Christian

My God!! That much!?! This world has gone nuts! Sal, you should get yours researched. Who knows what you will find! I got mine researched and it was only a long service ORB, but still... there were not too many numbered ORB and it would be well worth it to get a name to go along with it!

[Guest Rick Research]

ORB "2" number 3760 would be from the summer of 1943, so this is a very nice so-called "Victory Parade" updated modern war's end replacement for a screwback. No long service on this one!

[Elmar Lang]

A very fine piece indeed!

I would like to contribute with my Red Banner "2", of the screwback type, number 1348. It corresponds to Durov - Strekalov's Type 2, Variant 2, Subtype 1 (or 2?), illustrated on page 140.

Best wishes,

Enzo

Below, the pictures of the obverse and reverse sides:

[Guest Rick Research]

From the spring of 1942 !!!! Have you had that researched?

So far, it seems like the mere Ordinary Comrades just got plain 1st-award Red Banners (over and over again), but Important Comrades got "2", "3" and so on.

Another prize, if the research can be done!

The only one that I ever acquired before prices went insane was 27,388.

From the number, it was awarded in the last mass long service Ukaz of 30 December 1956. Research was attempted once, years ago, and came back negative--

so all I know is that the recipient was not in the ARMY.

[Elmar Lang]

Hi Rick,

all my Soviet pieces were bought in the late '80s and remained as a little "socialist wunderkammer" inside my collection.

Now, I see that new, improved researches are going on and I hope to know more about the history behind some of my pieces. I see that also Soviet Orders & Decorations are "jumping" to fantastic prices, following what already happened to Tsarist pieces... that's a good reply to those collectors laughing at the few courageous looking for those strange and cheap-priced "signs of honour"...

Yes, I think I'll let this piece be researched!

Best wishes,

Enzo

[Guest Darrell]

Dear Tony,

Igor offers a RB #2 (but from a much later series!) for USD 2.600,-:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18371

Best regards

Christian

Which means normal dealers and collectors put a value of $1500 on it

[speedytop]

Hi,

here is mine, No. 20440.

Bought ~1991 for 145,-DM = 73 Euro. Just enough for a copy?

Regards

Uwe

[Paul R]

Here is mine, to a senior medical officer.

ORB 2nd award 18,324 per Ukaz of 15.11.50

[Sal]

Dear Tony,

Igor offers a RB #2 (but from a much later series!) for USD 2.600,-:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18371

Best regards

Christian

HOLY SMOKES......I better get this locked up in the bank...

[Sal]

Gentlemen

Thank you for your recommendations and background.....it's a great motivator to get this piece researched.

Rick, thanks, at least now I have a year group to place it as a start.....1943 is a nice surprise. I really need to study the dates and time periods more for the Soviet items, I dont have much research material over here.

Anyway, thank you for your items I truly enjoy seeing what's out there, it always amazes me what is in your houses.

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

to add some little data to this thread, my Red Banner orders "2" with ribbon, bear the numbers 5376 and 10676. The first of them is also struck with two small "1" marks on the reverse centre.

Best wishes,

Enzo

[Christian Zulus]

Which means normal dealers and collectors put a value of $1500 on it

Dear Darrell,

due to the fact, that it is for sure a battle RB#2 from summer 1943 and not the usual long service award, I can not imagine a dealer or collector, who would sell such item for mere USD 1500,-.

I can also imagine, that Igor might ask for such a RB#2 more than USD 3000,- (incl. research) ...

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

RB#2 battle award

ORB "2" number 3760 would be from the summer of 1943, so this is a very nice so-called "Victory Parade" updated modern war's end replacement for a screwback. No long service on this one!

Gentlemen,

might be also one of the very first suspended RB#2 and not a "Victory Parade" order ?

Anatoly Kutsenko lists in his book about Soviet Orders concerning RB#2:

s/n. 2707 - 22.02.1943

s/n. 3962 - 27.08.1943

s/n. 7037 - 22.06.1944

So it seems likely, that RB#2 s/n. 3760 was awarded in july or august 1943.

Best regards

Christian

BTW: That's my RB#2 belonging to a (incomplete) airforce officer's group - long service award of the 1950s : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=24254

[Christian Zulus]

HOLY SMOKES......I better get this locked up in the bank...

Bank vaults are cheaper, than insurance fees ...

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

I would like to contribute with my Red Banner "2", of the screwback type, number 1348. It corresponds to Durov - Strekalov's Type 2, Variant 2, Subtype 1 (or 2?), illustrated on page 140.

Dear Enzo,

congratulations to your beauty .

At the NYC-auction some weeks ago, such an order had been sold for USD 27.600,- (incl. buyer's premium) :

http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2213

Best regards

Christian

[Guest Rick Research]

Sal: though this hasn't been added to for a bit, here is our On Site Listing for CONFIRMED dated serial numbers:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7861

there are always oddities (random boxes with lower numbers assigned to units that handed them out later etc etc) but it's a good general guideline to dating these awards.

[Ed_Haynes]

Sorry, but the only double (or better) Red Banners I have are to:

1- Major General Vatslav Bronislavovich Lavrinovich - but he never lived to get his "2" - http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2326

2- Captain Vladimir Vasilievich Kulishenko - but his second Red banner isn't a "2" - http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=20951

[Guest Darrell]

Dear Darrell,

due to the fact, that it is for sure a battle RB#2 from summer 1943 and not the usual long service award, I can not imagine a dealer or collector, who would sell such item for mere USD 1500,-.

I can also imagine, that Igor might ask for such a RB#2 more than USD 3000,- (incl. research) ...

Best regards

Christian

I understand. What I'm saying is if he sells something for $ X.XX .... most others sell for ($ X.XX / 2) .....

There is "markup" ... then there's simple price gouging. Since a few "reasonable" Russian Dealers dropped out of the game ... these prices have gone through the roof ....

[Sal]

Sal: though this hasn't been added to for a bit, here is our On Site Listing for CONFIRMED dated serial numbers:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7861

there are always oddities (random boxes with lower numbers assigned to units that handed them out later etc etc) but it's a good general guideline to dating these awards.

Thanks very much Rick......i appreciate that...

[Lapa]

Here is mine, to a senior medical officer.

ORB 2nd award 18,324 per Ukaz of 15.11.50

Paul,

Could you please post hi-res scans of the front and back of the medallion. The serial number is apparently too high for this variation, and I'd like to have a good look at it.

Marc