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Balkan countries bars


hipnos
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Miguel,

Those are very nice bars. I try to limit my collection to one period (1914-18), but I also find myself drifting into other areas, too.

The Balkans in the pre-1914 period are fascinating and I look forward to seeing more of your collection.

David

Thanks...David I enjpy this rarities...Now almost imposible to find at a reasonable??? price...

The bars can tell one man?s history in a more wide historical backround...helas, I don?t know their name and is almost impossible to find now. I take a minute to think about their life

Regards

miguel

PS/ It?s difficult to restrict yourself to a determinated period, It ist?n???

Sorry for my autodidactic english

reagards again

Miguel

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Hallo Miguel,

vary nice bars. Are those bars identified. Can you tell us thoowner of the bars?

Alex

As I?ve already write, I think will be very difficult to find the file to these men...or I can?t find the way.

Gentlemen I am open to any sugestion on this matter

Thanks

miguel

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Bulgarian Bar (a rarity!!, the first time I see a bulgarian bar... probably for sake of more research))

It includes:

1/ LS&GC cross 10 years for NCO Ferdinand edition (1889)

2/ Commemorative Cross for King Ferdinand accesion to the throne 3th. class (1887)

3/ Merit medal 2nd. class (Ferdinand -young- edition type II, 1887-1891)

4/ Serbia War medal silver (1st. class) 1885

Edited by hipnos
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Bulgarian Bar (a rarity!!, the first time I see a bulgarian bar... probably for sake of more research))

It includes:

1/ LS&GC cross 10 years for NCO Ferdinand edition (1889)

2/ Commemorative Cross for King Ferdinand accesion to the throne 3th. class (1887)

3/ Merit medal 2nd. class (Ferdinand -young- edition type II, 1887-1891)

4/ Serbia War medal silver (1st. class) 1885

Miguel,

That is very nice! Where do you find these bars?

David

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Miguel,

That is very nice! Where do you find these bars?

David

This one came from a correspondent in Sofia, Bulgary. Is a dealer I know in some eBay deals. I ask Him on the matter, and this is the result...

It was my Christmas give in 2004-2005...

Miguel

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Hi Miguel

Thanks for informing me, your early Roumanian bravery bar is superb :jumping: don't see too many of those around. Come to think of it, dont see many bulgarian bars. Any idea why that is compared to the other Balkan countries.

Sincerely

Brian

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Hi Miguel

Thanks for informing me, your early Roumanian bravery bar is superb :jumping: don't see too many of those around. Come to think of it, dont see many bulgarian bars. Any idea why that is compared to the other Balkan countries.

Sincerely

Brian

No Idea, I?ve see photos of bulgarian officers, and some of the seems as if they have the orders/medals loosely mounted (one -to one, remember the triangular ribbons...I?ll continue to searching....No bar has been find in any seller at internet...(By the way I?ve see only a Greek bar on a International auction)

We must return toi speak on the matter

Regards

Miguel

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Hallo hipnos, :cheers:

Congratulations on obtaining some beautiful medal bars,

I like the Romanian bars very much. :jumping::jumping:

If I may make a comment, the Russian Medal that you describe as:

"Russian Independence of Romania Medal" I think its

more correctly known as:

" Medal for Participants in the Russo-Turkish War of 1877 - 1878".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War,_1877-1878

Kevin in Deva :beer:

Edited by Kev in Deva
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If I may make a comment, the Russian Medal that you describe as:

"Russian Independence of Romania Medal" I think its

more correctly known as:

" Medal for Participants in the Russo-Turkish War of 1877 - 1878".

An interesting thing about this medal is that so many of these were awarded to Romanians that it was included in the Romanian system of decorations.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hallo hipnos, :cheers:

Congratulations on obtaining some beautiful medal bars,

I like the Romanian bars very much. :jumping::jumping:

If I may make a comment, the Russian Medal that you describe as:

"Russian Independence of Romania Medal" I think its

more correctly known as:

" Medal for Participants in the Russo-Turkish War of 1877 - 1878".

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War,_1877-1878" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War,_1877-1878</a>

Kevin in Deva :beer:

As ever you are very accurate. :cheers:

Of course you are right, But the first time I see one it was in conection with the fight for the independence of the romanians principalities with romanian volonteers fighting along the russian army...and the medal is listed as russian. (I?ve read that is so commonly distributed that he comes with the romanian range of decorations..-Thanks CarolI-)

Regards

Miguel :beer:

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As ever you are very accurate. :cheers:

Of course you are right, But the first time I see one it was in conection with the fight for the independence of the romanians principalities with romanian volonteers fighting along the russian army...and the medal is listed as russian. (I?ve read that is so commonly distributed that he comes with the romanian range of decorations..-Thanks CarolI-)

You're welcome Miguel, but I have two small notes to your latest post.

1. From 1862 the state was no longer known officially as 'Romanian (or Danubian) Principalities', but as 'Romania'.

2. There were no "Romanian volunteers fighting along the Russian army", but the Romanian Army called upon rather desperately by the Russian army stuck at Pleven with great human losses. The National Military Museum has on display the telegram sent by Grand Duke Nikolai of Russia to Prince Carol I of Romania which reads:

The Turks massed together the greatest troop at Pleven to lay us waste. I ask you to make mergers, demonstrations and if it is possible cross the Danube with the army as you wish. Between Jiu and Corabia, the demonstration is absolutely necessary to facilitate my movements.
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You're welcome Miguel, but I have two small notes to your latest post.

1. From 1862 the state was no longer known officially as 'Romanian (or Danubian) Principalities', but as 'Romania'.

2. There were no "Romanian volunteers fighting along the Russian army", but the Romanian Army called upon rather desperately by the Russian army stuck at Pleven with great human losses. The National Military Museum has on display the telegram sent by Grand Duke Nikolai of Russia to Prince Carol I of Romania which reads:

Thanks a lot. I?ve writing without any source before me, and I?ve never very good with dates...I truly appreciated your advise and deep knowledge on the theme. Are you Romanian??. :D

Miguel

PS/ Wikipedia quote: "Danubian Principalities (Romanian: Principatele Dunărene) was a conventional name given to the Principalities of Moldavia and Wallachia, which emerged in the early 14th century. The term was coined in the Habsburg Monarchy after the Treaty of Kuchuk Kainarji (1774) in order to designate an area on the lower Danube with a common geopolitical situation.[1] The term was largely used then by foreign political circles and public opinion until the union of the two Principalities (1859). Alongside Transylvania, the Danubian Principalities (or Romanian Principalities) became the basis for the Romanian nation-state."

"Russia had no more troops to throw against Plevna, so they besieged it, and subsequently asked the Romanians to provide extra troops. Soon afterwards, Romanian forces crossed the Danube and joined the siege. On August 16, at Gorni-Studen, the armies around Pleven ? renamed the West Armies ? were placed under the command of the Romanian Prince Carol, aided by the Russian general Pavel Dmitrievich Zotov and the Romanian general Alexandru Cernat."

;)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Bulgarian Bar (a rarity!!, the first time I see a bulgarian bar... probably for sake of more research))

It includes:

1/ LS&GC cross 10 years for NCO Ferdinand edition (1889)

2/ Commemorative Cross for King Ferdinand accesion to the throne 3th. class (1887)

3/ Merit medal 2nd. class (Ferdinand -young- edition type II, 1887-1891)

4/ Serbia War medal silver (1st. class) 1885

Good day. Very beautiful ribbon bar. But you have some mistake in the description. On first place service cross is for officers, not for NCO!!!! On 3 place - is not Merit medal, but Merit order.

It very strange that on first place situated Service cross. Concerning the rules - order must be on first place...., then cross, then commemorative cross, then medal for war with Serbia.

Edited by bolgarin
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Hi Gentlemen,

I agree with Bolgarian in principle. Awards worn by Bulgarian royal military and civil service members officially should follow proper sequence of orders, decorations, and medals in order of seniority and award date (for foreign awards following national ones).

However, I've seen about 100 Bulgarian royal bars over the past 40 years "in the flesh" and photos or illustrations of maybe 300+ others. Maybe half are mounted in the "correct" order and the others...hard to say. Members of Princess Clementine's regiment sometimes had her official "death" commemorative mounted ahead of their long service awards. (An example in the former military museum in Sofia.) Some otherwise "normal" civil bars include the apparently unofficial Plodiv fair 30 mm medal. A few years ago, FJP auctions sold a "home-made" bar with the Balkan and WWI commemoratives ahead of a Merit Medal!

Other considerations: Apparently an imperial Russian mounting style was used from about 1878 to mid-Ferdinand and an imperial German style from mid-Ferdinand to late Boris. There are as many exceptions to this rule as examples. And "home-made" examples are all over too.

This is a fascinating but little explored area.

Thanks again for sharing this bar!

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Hi Gentlemen,

I agree with Bolgarian in principle. Awards worn by Bulgarian royal military and civil service members officially should follow proper sequence of orders, decorations, and medals in order of seniority and award date (for foreign awards following national ones).

However, I've seen about 100 Bulgarian royal bars over the past 40 years "in the flesh" and photos or illustrations of maybe 300+ others. Maybe half are mounted in the "correct" order and the others...hard to say. Members of Princess Clementine's regiment sometimes had her official "death" commemorative mounted ahead of their long service awards. (An example in the former military museum in Sofia.) Some otherwise "normal" civil bars include the apparently unofficial Plodiv fair 30 mm medal. A few years ago, FJP auctions sold a "home-made" bar with the Balkan and WWI commemoratives ahead of a Merit Medal!

Other considerations: Apparently an imperial Russian mounting style was used from about 1878 to mid-Ferdinand and an imperial German style from mid-Ferdinand to late Boris. There are as many exceptions to this rule as examples. And "home-made" examples are all over too.

This is a fascinating but little explored area.

Thanks again for sharing this bar!

Thank to both for your opinions. I was thinking that the officers cross for X years was gilded..., that?s my error...And I was wrong to denominate "medal" au lieu of Order to the merit Order, of course, Thanks again!!! :blush: By the way I think that Iwas wronged too because the commemorative cross is a second class, the first clas is with enameled center, and there are not third class)

The first time I got the Bar, I become amazed to see this awkward ordenation, because, I was thinking, never a LS&GC cross can be in the first place...with others orders in the same bar...But the same don?t show manipulation signs, so I must accept that the owner thinked that this was the correct (or most liked) order of placement. I?d never see in the forums and at ebay or other dealers sites another Bulgarian bar...So...I liked so much this. The only possibility with this ribbons is that a Military Merit order could be in the first place???

Any information or new source you can show me on the matter will be welcome!!

Thanks Again!! :beer:

Miguel

Edited by hipnos
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