Turkey TURKEY. Order of the CRESCENT

[Veteran]

Hello

So our Turkish "Nessie" has been spotted once again!.

This new material is consistent with the earlier comments. It really seems that badges were manufactured, in France at least, in the early 1800s. It makes good sense to me.

A very pleasant thought.

Best regards to all

Veteran

Edited February 9, 2010 by Veteran

[lilo]

What do you think of this (I don't remember where I found this photo, may be a forum) ?

The central badge is identical to that of the illustration in PERROT, A.M. Collection historique des Ordres de chevalerie civils et militaires etc... Paris 1820 (see previous page) so, after all, this was a real order and not a fanciful one.

Edited October 22, 2011 by lilo

[Veteran]

Hello Lilo

As related in the earlier messages, these enameled badges were probably made up by French jewelers at the request of the few people who had been awarded the order without insignia by the Turks.

This was a TRUE AWARD. The insignia were made up for those few recipients who felt they needed a European type of badge to show for it. And since the awards were official and the badges worn by those who had received them, Perrot et al. reproduced what existed.

I believe the Perrot was mostly intended to be used by diplomatic service members in order to recognise the various orders which had flourished all over Europe in the early 1800s. Not really meant for collectors which possibly did not exist in those days.

In other words, real award and imaginative badges.

It still makes them very scarce and collectors of orders and medals of that period seem to like them. I do and I have immensly enjoyed this learned discussion.

Regards

Veteran

Edited October 23, 2011 by Veteran

[demir]

Lord Nelson

Both of his awards look similar to the Perrot.

Website with some info.

http://www.stjoachim....org/nelson.htm

As mentioned earlier this medal is not an official medal but a creation. I think a French jeweller has taken the 'crescent and star' of the medal of Vaka-i Misriye (Egypt incident) (the medal shown in the picture attached to "bear"s thread (the medal just right side of the right pocket, which has star and crescent on it). Ottomans in none of their orders used the turban- hat.

Also it has nothing to do with the Turkish Republic, actually all the Ottoman medals and orders has been banned with the law no. 2590 which was published in the Official Gazette dated 26.11.1934.

Here are two more photos which were recently published in my facebook forum.

Demir

[demir]

What do you think of this (I don't remember where I found this photo, may be a forum) ?

The central badge is identical to that of the illustration in PERROT, A.M. Collection historique des Ordres de chevalerie civils et militaires etc... Paris 1820 (see previous page) so, after all, this was a real order and not a fanciful one.

Hi,

The medal on the left is Vaka,-i Misriye instituted by Sultan Selim III (attached picture) the miniature one is a lovely unofficial medal.

The interesting point is this medal is given to those who helped to win the war against the French when they invaded Egypt in March 1801.

Demir

Edited October 24, 2012 by demir

[demir]

Hello Demir

Thank you for this information. We are all now satisfied that this badge is NOT AN OFFICIAL OTTOMAN AWARD.

Chances are that the badges found in France would be custom-made XIXth Century "fantasy" decorations, possibly made to order or available to French recipients of the Ottoman Order of the Crescent who wanted to have something to show for it.

The Royal Almanach for 1828 lists all French holders of foreign awards and decorations. This book was the official reference of the "establishment".

It mentions eleven holders of the Ottoman Order of the Crescent :

General Comte de La Ville-sur-Illon

Baron des Acres

Baron Jassaud

Marquis de Latour-Maubourg

Sa Seigneurerie le G?n?ral Comte Guilleminot (This general is said to have worn a "Crescent" badge on a neck-ribbon).n)Baron Pr?vot

Sa Seigneurerie le Comte de No?

Marquis de Dreneu

Chevalier de Gualy

Colonel Regnaud de Villatte

Monsieur Boidin

A later issue of the Imperial Almanach in 1855 mentions seven survivors since 1828 :

General Comte de La Ville-sur-Illon

Monsieur Dr?vot (could be Pr?vot previously listed)

Comte de No?

Marquis de Dreneu

Chevalier de Gualy

Colonel Regnaud de Villatte

Monsieur Boidin

Obviously, this order was taken very seriously by the French. The holders would certainly have wanted something to show for it, even if they had not received a formal badge from the Turks. They probably had them made, since they were officially recognised by the King and the Emperor successively, over a very long period ..... As mentioned earlier, a portrait painting of General FOY is known to exist with the badge worn around his neck.

I will be pleased to report the result of the auction when the smaller badge and the miniature will be put up for sale. It is fully understood by now that the badges were local productions. But they do have appeal to collectors of foreign awards to Frenchmen. The important thing is to undestand as clearly as possible what they truly are, and this debate has been and remains very enlightening.

Thank you all. Best regards

Veteran

Here is the picture of Armand Charles Guilleminot's Lieutenant-general, Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire 1824-1831 (http://fr.wikipedia....les_Guilleminot) who has the said order on his neck.

Demir

[larsb001]

On 31/1/2010 at 13:15, CUSSONNEAU said:

Hello,

After a year of intensive (!) investigations, this document from an old house in Paris under the Restauration (Predecessor of the Halley's firm) :

 

 

Regards

Cuss

In a large and expanding universe like the GMIC there would be different topics covering the same items. I read this topic yesterday evening and was quite amazed in seing this production sample from an old french producer. The badge I got recently is very clearly made by this company and although allready presented on GMIC in another topic I'd thought I would doublepost the pictures for comparison in this topic.

The other topic I'm referring to is:

 

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by larsb001