Jump to content
Boris

French 1914 General and Officers Ranks

Recommended Posts

Hello

I have draw some icons of french 1914 ranks. I think there is not any mistake:

About stars, is strange the first general rank begin whith two, and the Mariscal of France has seven, two more that the

General.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some Kepis:

Edited by Boris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Paul, I have german toorte-emoticon.gif

Edited by Boris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

very nice Boris!

a great information source I must say, it gives a good overview of the French ranks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Boris

Very nice artwork.

I am not sure the upper ranks of general officers existed in 1914. There was a G?n?ral de division with 3 stars. During WW1 a thin stripe was added to the three stars to indicate a G?n?ral de corps d'Arm?e.

The two upper ranks may have appeared between the wars.

Field officers stripes on the lower sleeve were separated from the first three (captain) by a small space, ofteh occupied by black material.

The word "Commandant" is not always unsed for the fourth rank of officers.

The infantry has a "Chef de bataillon".

Cavalry have a "chef d'escadrons" the last word being the plural of "escadron" normally under the command of a captain. The stripes for cavalry officiers are silver.

The general picture you give is absolutely right, the generals having to be checked.

Nice understantding of the situation.

Regards

Veteran

Edited by Veteran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Veteran

Thank you for your praise to my modest work and specially for your very valuable observations.

I am not sure the upper ranks of general officers existed in 1914. There was a G?n?ral de division with 3 stars. During WW1 a thin stripe was added to the three stars to indicate a G?n?ral de corps d'Arm?e.

The two upper ranks may have appeared between the wars.

You must be right, is different the career rank than the commant post. In a date as advanced as 1936 the spanish army generals rank finish with "general de division", there was not general officers. And this army have as model the french one at that times. But there was a farther territorial command post (this was in 1930), the captain general.

I understand that you d?ont include in this comment the "Mar?chal de France" that exist althought there was not any in active service at least.

Field officers stripes on the lower sleeve were separated from the first three (captain) by a small space, ofteh occupied by black material.

The word "Commandant" is not always unsed for the fourth rank of officers.

The infantry has a "Chef de bataillon".

I must investigate this in depth .

I?ll put here changes when finish. In special the generaux as you recommend.

Thank you again and regards.rte-emoticon.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Boris

A Mar?chal de France is a general officer with a special status (it is called a "dignit?" in french). It is usually bestowed upon general officers who were highly successful in command of large armies in major wars. During and after WW1 there were only 7 Mar?chaux and after WW2 only two (Juin & de Lattre de Tassigny) and one posthumeous (Leclerc).

The stripes for field officers are set out as you can see on this picture of a colonel's uniform (still in use for the Navy, the Air Force and Joint services such as the Medical corps).

This is only a detail, of course, but I felt you might like to know about this in order to get the finer details on your excellent illustrations.

Very best ragards

Veteran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Veteran

Yes, the same title ?Mar?chal de France? or better, as you say, ?dignit?? or ?dignidad? in spanish, have a special ?sound?. For me, the ?dignit?? come from Watchman with capital letters of France. Of course, have to be worthy or ?triomphant?. I don?t Know if you agree.

You are very right that the objetive of is to be historical 100%... without any mistake. Other way have not sense.

I observe in the photo you have so kindly include, that the stripes of rank begin after the flaps with bottons of the cuff and not before as in my draws.

Could be another mistake.

Thank you very much, Veteran, for your first class advising.

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About marshall uniform will take the example of Joffre:

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2008/post-4508-1214675551.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2008/post-4508-1214675709.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello

In this web that I didn't see yet, talk about Marshall Rank or "dignit?":

http://www.military-photos.com/generaux.htm

"Entre 1860 et 1914, le corps des g?n?raux de l'arm?e francaise ne comprend que deux grades, les g?n?raux de brigade et les g?n?raux de division. Les brigadiers (limite d'age actif, dit "premi?re section" de 62 ans) sont en charge des brigades de toutes les armes (compos?es de deux ? trois r?giments), ainsi que des fonctions sp?ciales de chef d'?tat major de corps d'arm?e ou de commandement territoriaux ou d'?coles.

Les g?n?raux de division (limite d'age actif de 65 ans, puis passage en reserve, dite "deuxi?me section") prennent en chage toutes les unit?s organiques sup?rieures ? la brigade (division, corps, arm?e ou groupe d'arm?e). Ils ne sont d?pass?s en grade que par les Mar?chaux de France, dignit? ?tablie sous l'Empire, qui disparaitra durant la p?riode 1871-1916. Le dernier Mar?chal de France de la p?riode s'?teint en 1896, il s'agit du Mar?chal Canrobert."

A short traslation, I hope be all right :rolleyes: . My english and french (and spanish) are not specially goods as can be red.

"Between 1860 and 1814, the general's corp of french army have only two ranks: Brigadier-General and Major-General.

The Brigadiers command the brigades of all branches. Furthermore

Assume specials functions as Headquatermaster of Army Corp, Territorial Division Commander or Chief in a military school.

Major-General have the command of all units up to brigade (division, army corp, army or armies group). Only have as superior rank, Marshal of France, charge stablished at Empire period and that disapeared between 1871-1916."

This stripe is the one you may refer to:

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Boris

I must apologize for a real mistake I made about infantry officers rank insignia (stripes). Contrary to my message indicating the space between the third and fourth/fifth stripes on field offficers sleeves, THE PRE-1914 STRIPES WERE EXACTLTY AS REPRODUCED IN YOUR ILLUSTRATIONS. Your information was absolutely right. The red piece with three buttons only covers the 3 lower stripes as you have shown.

It seems the space appeared later, possibly between WW1 and WW2.

Sources are : GALOT, A. & ROBERT, C. "Les uniformes de l'Arm?e fran?aise. Son armement. Son ?quipement (de 1872 ? 1914). Recueil de notes et R?glements". no date.

The information about general officers, on the other hand, is confirmed.

Sorry about that.

Sincerely

Veteran

Edited by Veteran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Boris

I must apologize for a real mistake I made about infantry officers rank insignia (stripes). Contrary to my message indicating the space between the third and fourth/fifth stripes on field offficers sleeves, THE PRE-1914 STRIPES WERE EXACTLTY AS REPRODUCED IN YOUR ILLUSTRATIONS. Your information was absolutely right. The red piece with three buttons only covers the 3 lower stripes as you have shown.

It seems the space appeared later, possibly between WW1 and WW2.

Sources are : GALOT, A. & ROBERT, C. "Les uniformes de l'Arm?e fran?aise. Son armement. Son ?quipement (de 1872 ? 1914). Recueil de notes et R?glements". no date.

The information about general officers, on the other hand, is confirmed.

Sorry about that.

Sincerely

Veteran

Hello veteran, thank you for the source, I'll try to find this book, that have a nice titlerte-emoticon.gif. Then I think the investigation work is over. As you say had to be a evolution in the stripes of the cuffs later on. The silver line around the kepis was right then. Now I just have to make the drawing. I include here some pictures and photos about the topic that could be interesting:

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2008/post-4508-1214793295.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2008/post-4508-1214793261.jpg

Regards and all the best

Boris

P.D. You d'ont have to apologize. Without your help and clues my work would no past any serious exam. Thank you very much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last photos:

Joffre as general-mayor, "grand tenue":

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last photos:

Joffre as general-mayor, "grand tenue":

Great stuff. Boris, your images are amazing!

I have a kepi with a silver band above the gold band...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great stuff. Boris, your images are amazing!

I have a kepi with a silver band above the gold band...

Hello Charles

Thank you. It seems you have a good collection of WW1 uniforms. Congratulations

rte-emoticon.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here cames Marshall and Generals (I bought the book at last, must be coming):

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boris,

Your graphic work is terrific. I wish your chart had been available years ago when I was desperately trying to learn the French Army ranks.

I've always read and been told that France only introduced ranks above 3 stars at the end of 1918. I always wondered how when the rank of Marshall exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boris,

Your graphic work is terrific. I wish your chart had been available years ago when I was desperately trying to learn the French Army ranks.

I've always read and been told that France only introduced ranks above 3 stars at the end of 1918. I always wondered how when the rank of Marshall exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a nice 3 star. I need lessons on photography. I have a few nice items but no ability to take quality photos with a neutral background decent enough for posting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...