Albania Order of Skanderbeg 1940 - 1945 Italy award?

[hmfgreifswald]

Is the Order of Skanderbeg from 1940 - 1945 a Italy award or a Albanian?

Howe many Albanian citizens was awarded in that time with this order?

I mean, it will the same, that the German made a award for Poland citzens in time 1939 to 1945.

Please send me your meaning. Best a Albania collector.

Sincerely Holger

[Elmar Lang]

Hello Holger,

Italy occupied Albania in 1939 and Victor Emanuel III took also the title of "King of Albania", besides "King of Italy and Emperor of Ethiopia". From that date, the already existing orders of Skanderbeg and Besa, were slightly modified from the model awarded in King Zog's time, adding the Savoy's motto "FERT"", the Fasces, etc.

The orders, from then on, were awarded as national Albanian awards, of course, from the ruler, who was in the same time King of Italy and of Albania.

The two orders, in the Italian, form were awarded until 1943 but until now I don't know how many pieces have been awarded in the various classes.

I know that a deep study on the subject is now in progress in Albania: let's hope that it would became a book soon.

Best wishes,

Elmar Lang

Edited July 26, 2008 by Elmar Lang

[Eric Schena]

Just to add a few random things...

When first established, Zog was in the habit of awarding the Order of Skanderbeg fairly liberally as favors to friends or to visiting dignitaries. I'm not sure there were any records of who got what. I have heard that the higher classes of the Zogist era pieces are more common than the lower classes, but it's the opposite for the Italian era pieces. I'm not sure the Italians kept any good records, either, to be honest.

Also, in addition to the letters FERT on the Italian pieces (which stands for the motto of the House of Savoy - supposedly expands out to read Foedere et religione tenemur though no one is 100% sure of that), the goat's head on the top of the helmet of Skanderbeg points in the opposite direction than the Zogist pieces.

To echo Elmar's post, they are considered Albanian awards even in the Italian incarnation.

The Order of Skanderbeg in all its versions is my favorite award. I don't have any pre-Communist era pieces, but someday, I hope (Dum spiro spero, to continue the Latin theme).

Cheers,

Eric

[Ed_Haynes]

An interesting question. In some ways I guess it is like those foreign orders that were loosely absorbed into the French orders structure when France annexed places like Tunisia, the various islands of Comores, Annam, the constituent sultanates of Djibouti, Laos, etc., and these orders became, for some, "French" but in reality they retained their independent (though distorted and tightly controlled) identity as Tunisian, etc., awards.

[Eric Schena]

That truly is a fascinating question, Ed. I suppose it could be considered both Italian Colonial and Albanian. That said, I have a very hard time seeing an Albanian wearing the Italian version around town these days. I've always wondered about that in some of the general reference books, why some obviously colonial orders were listed in their independent nation's listings (like the Skanderbeg here discussed) while others are listed under the colonial power even when they were established by the colony when it was independent (like the examples you provided for France). Maybe some consistency is called for here. I'm just waxing philosophical here, so pay no mind to me.

I suppose this should more properly belong in the non-Communist Balkan forum...

[hmfgreifswald]

Thanks dear friends, it is a real free forum, the GIMC . We continue to think of everything . We are not alone in the world . History is learns and to teach .

[hmfgreifswald]

So, sorry. Last question. You knowe Mrs. Umalatowa, that awarded ann. medals for every act after end of soviet union, for "falling" soldiers and officers in russia. What are awards? Souvenirs or .....! Communist, or russia....? Wher are listed or directory the awards in 30 years later, in "special" price-cataloge. I mean the FALERISTIK is not a help / para sience . We are scientist.

[Ed_Haynes]

This is really and there are many threads here on these awards. Some see them as:

-- legitimate continuations of Soviet authority, or as

-- money-making frauds, or as

-- interesting phaleristic sociology, as

-- warped continuations of defunct authority (like teh ongoing awards of "royal" Italian orders), or as

-- something to be ignored.

Some see them as woirth collecting, others don't. I see them as worth collecting and am glad that so many don't, as otherwise the prices would be higher.

But these larger questions, seeing awards as something that has meaning only within their history, psychology, and sociology are important and valuable. It is so sad when they are simply seen as "things" (worse, as "things of value"), extracted from history.

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

back to the Albanian Orders awarded under the Italian rule, I need to remember that their position in the Royal Italian system of honour is completely different from that of France and its "Ordres Coloniaux". Albania was not a colony, but a kingdom with the same ruler as Italy. Victor Emanuel III's title began like this:

"...Kingdom of Italy and Albania; Emperor of Ethiopia; (...)".

Our colonial possessions (besides small "bureaus" and islands from Greece to China) actually were Somalia and Erithrea only, since Lybia, after WW1 had the status of a region of Italy, with a governor, because of the Mediterranean dividing it from the Continent and Ethiopia, remained with its status of Empire, but under Italian rule.

The only state, maintaining a proper system of honour was Albania and, all Albanian Orders were awarded from Victor Emanuel as "King of Albania", in no way as Italian "colonial" awards.

Maybe, papers and statistics could still be preserved somewhere at our State Archive in Rome. It's an enormous site and part of it is organized as huge vaults: surprises can happen, because more or less 8 years ago in one of the safes, a group of orders belonged to Mussolini was found. This group was considered as lost since 1943. Among them, the German Eagle with brilliants and a Grand Cross of the Besa, also with brilliants.

Best wishes,

Elmar Lang

[Zaim Qyteza]

Hello,

back to the Albanian Orders awarded under the Italian rule, I need to remember that their position in the Royal Italian system of honour is completely different from that of France and its "Ordres Coloniaux". Albania was not a colony, but a kingdom with the same ruler as Italy. Victor Emanuel III's title began like this:

"...Kingdom of Italy and Albania; Emperor of Ethiopia; (...)".

Our colonial possessions (besides small "bureaus" and islands from Greece to China) actually were Somalia and Erithrea only, since Lybia, after WW1 had the status of a region of Italy, with a governor, because of the Mediterranean dividing it from the Continent and Ethiopia, remained with its status of Empire, but under Italian rule.

The only state, maintaining a proper system of honour was Albania and, all Albanian Orders were awarded from Victor Emanuel as "King of Albania", in no way as Italian "colonial" awards.

Maybe, papers and statistics could still be preserved somewhere at our State Archive in Rome. It's an enormous site and part of it is organized as huge vaults: surprises can happen, because more or less 8 years ago in one of the safes, a group of orders belonged to Mussolini was found. This group was considered as lost since 1943. Among them, the German Eagle with brilliants and a Grand Cross of the Besa, also with brilliants.

Best wishes,

Elmar Lang

Dear Lang,

This is a very important and interesting information. Can you furnish some other information of this finding of Mussolini?s BESA Order.

Thank you in advance,

Regards,

Artan