Oldenburg, House merit order of Peter Frederic Ludwig

[pinpon590]

Hello gentlemen !

I've seen this order on eMedals.ca : grand cross of the order, with swords and laurels !

I've never seen this combination (with laurels)...

What does these laurels mean ?

Can't they be awarded with all ranks of the order ?

Thank you for your answers !

:cheers:

Edited August 27, 2008 by pinpon590

[Deruelle]

Hello, salut,

Dans le livre de Beyreiss, 8 officiers ont re?u des lauriers ? leur d?coration. Seules deux croix de grand croix ont ?t? d?cern?es. l'une ? Hindenburg, mais avec la couronne en or, et l'autre ? Ludendorff. Tous les deux ont re?u cette d?coration leu 29 octobre 1918.

Cordialement

Christophe

[pinpon590]

Hello !

Ces lauriers constituent-ils un grade plus ?lev? ? Ou est ce juste un ornement suppl?mentaire ?

Quelles sont les r?f?rences du livre de Beyreiss ?? Je ne le connais pas...

Merci pour tout !

[Deruelle]

Les lauriers n'?taient pas d?cern?s comme grade plus ?l?v?. Le Grand Duc a amend? cet ordre le 21 octobre 1918 afin de r?compenser les r?cipiendaires de l'ordre Pour le M?rite, m?me si il n'est fait mention nulle part.

Friedhelm Beyreiss, Der Hausorden und die Tragbaren Ehrenzeichen des Grossherzogtums Oldenburg 1813-1918, Norderstedt, Verlag Patzwall, 1997, 136 p. : isbn :3-931533-31-X

Un exemplaire de ce livre se trouve sur le site de Helmut Weitze.

Cordialement

Christophe

[pinpon590]

:beer:

Thank you !

[Riley1965]

Gentlemen,

Translation Please. My French is horrible. I had 2 1/2 years of it in High School but that was a LOOONG time ago.

Doc

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah, I grew up with Quebec-Frainch here in Southern Canada:

Our member Kapitular's book cited above on Oldenburg Orders shows a total of 8 but only two awards of the illustrated grade made with oakleaves, both on 29 October (!!!) 1918-- Ludendorff's, and Hindenburg's--which also had a golden crown. ((Editorial note: I would scarcely credit that the one on sale was Ludendorff's--it must have been a never issued piece.))

There is no mention of these in the statutes, even with the final change on 21.10.18 concerning this Order and recipients of the Prussian Pour le Merite.

The wreath is not a higher grade of the same class, but simply an embellishment apparently at the whim of the Grand Duke.

I can add that lower grades seem to have required or been tied into receipt of the Prussian Hohenzollern House Order 3rd Class with Xs during the war. That's one of the ways we can easily spot fake ribbon bars when we see the House Order ribbon with swords and no colonial campaign medal from before 1914 or no HOH3X from 1914+.

Regarding embellishments by the whim of the ruler-- in my work on Lippe-Detmold's House Order, there are several classes and embellishments which "never existed" shown in any of the Official Priice Guides, created as the Roll Keeper noted at the insistence of the ruler--in one case with the protesting marginal comment that no such class existed: Apparently the lucky recipient was informed he'd been GIVEN that and then the Orders Chancery was supposed to hand out one... which had to have been made from scratch on the spot!

This wreath attachment is thus similar to embellishments on a number of ordinary Orders in many countries which could be granted at the monarch's whim "with diamonds" yet such awards had no Class distinction from any other award of that same Grade-- a Tsarist Russian St Anna 3rd was a Saint Anna 3rd whether it had twinklies or not.

[Riley1965]

Many Thanks Rick!!! I always learn something new every day. I appreciate all the help I get.

Doc

[Scott Powell]

Thank you very much for the info Rick. you never cease to amaze me :cheers:

[Komtur]

With that scarce decoration you should always be careful. There exist lots of copies of the Oldenburg houseorder. Especially the one with laurels discussed here was sold on Thies auction Dec. 2003 as a modern copy.

With regards, Komtur.