Stogieman Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 what's a solid DFC with bar bringing these days??
Chris Boonzaier Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 Is there any other "stuff" to help attribute it?bestChris
Stogieman Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 Yep, the DFC is named, the set is named and was mounted for display by Spink itself! A rather large group of papers, photographs and other items are included. Portraits, his cap, unit patch/emblem, etc. Numerous official communiques including a letter of apology from the king over his inability to present the award himself. The DFC citation is there, specifies a rather high number of risky "pathfinder" missions, marking missions, etc. Rather spiffy group actually.I'm a neophyte with Brit stuff but this one has captured my imagination due to the quality and completeness.Any guidance on value would be appreciated!
Ed_Haynes Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 If there is provenance and documentation beyond the spiffy bronze plaque, this is a group that would attract a lot of interest. The danger, of course, is that the Brits did not name their WWII medals (and any naming on the DFC would have been later, unofficial); this makes the "assembly" of "groups" an active cottage industry (ditto the preperation of mounds of fraudulent paperwork).The stakes are high. While I don't like quoting prices and while many -- myself included -- criticise the volume, the Medal Yearbook 2006 provides a price guide (of sorts):DFC 1 bar (attributed) - GBP 2500-400039-45 Star - GBP 10-12ACE Star with F&G clasp - GBP 175-195Defence Medal - GBP 16-18War Medal - GBP 10-12Add these up and add, say, 20-25% (more if these are sexy DFC recommendations) and you see why someone would want to fake such groups.
Stogieman Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 OUCH! Perhaps a group best left for someone much more informed than me! Holy Mackeral. The question then becomes, how easy would it be for someone to assemble a "fake mounted Spink set" to go with the reams of paperwork. There's portraits both during/after the war. An oil painting of this chap, photos of planes, crashes, etc. It's a pretty hefty grouping. I have additional pix if this would help?
Stogieman Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 Well, for the sake of discussion, here's some details;The DFC
Chris Boonzaier Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 Building groups is a national passtime for crooked dealers in England.as Ed says, unless these are to a South African (or Rhodesian) the service medals should not be named.Of course, the recipient could have had then privately named. most Brit collectors like to have the papers and at least one officially named medal (just to proove the seller is not justselling a paper lot with made up medals).Its a bit like German groups with unnamed medals, if you know where they are from, fine. but some guys wont touch them.WW2 British is too dodgy for me :-(
Stogieman Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 And finally, the Spink & Co. plaque on the back of the mounted group.
Stogieman Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 The "story" is these were purchased through the estate of a family member.
Chris Boonzaier Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 It looks like a nice group.if you trust the source it may be worth picking up. there is no way to be 100% sure, just gut feeling.bestChis
Ed_Haynes Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 (edited) As Chris suggests, 50% "gut" 50% provenance. And for a high ticket group . . . ??I'd want to see better scans of the DFC and of the naming (are the naming and the date engraved in the same "hand" - oh!).As India (post-1947 meaning) also named (most of) their WWII medals, things are easier for me than for a "straight" Brit collector, but some 100% groups are also 100% unnamed. For example http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2331&st=6 -- as it came direct from his grandson, I feel safe. Edited October 28, 2005 by Ed_Haynes
Stogieman Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 Hi Chris, only reason I even brought it up. My "bells" were going off pretty strongly based on the details/photos given. On a "gut-call" basis, I was in.... but again, literally having minimal experience with this and knowing the minefield I was wandering into...... well, enough said there.I don't know the seller from Adam, I was turned onto this buy another fellow. I guess we will see where it goes.All other comments, thoughts, insights and direction would be most graciously appreciated!
Tony Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 (edited) Rick,Just something I noticed that doesn't make any difference to the grouping; the framing must be post 1952 as the plaque says "by appointment to her Majesty" and the RAF cap has the Queen's crown.Very nice lot though.Tony Edited October 28, 2005 by Tony
Stogieman Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 Hi Tony, thanks for your observation... some of the photos/paperwork suggest he served well after the war, when was HRH's Coronation??
Tony Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 The King died in early 1952, the Queen's coronation was about a year later. Summer 1953 I think.Tony
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