157th Company 35th Battalion Imperial Yeomanry.

[FHgdbell08]

My wife's grandfather Thomas Clare, born in Runcorn Cheshire 18/05/1881, died in Runcorn 08/05/1945.

At the age of 19/20 (1901) he signed up for the Imperial Yeomanry 157th Coy 35thBn Field Force South Africa, as trooper 40901 Thomas Clare.

We are led to believe that they were training in UK for a long period prior to being sent out as part of the 3rd contingent, who arrived just after the Boer War armistice was signed. This meant no campaign medals were given as we understand the situation.

Does anyone have any knowledge of where and what this Battalion may have been doing in S.Africa?

We believe that Thomas later went to Egypt and Palestine with Gen Alenby, and again we have no knowledge as to whether he changed units/army number or whether he was awarded/entitled to any medals for this campaign

At the end of conflict he returned home to work at the ICI plant in Weston Point, Cheshire- he had never discussed with his family his time in the military.

He died in 1945 whilst his son Dennis (now 83) was on active duty in the Navy in the Far East and other son Alan was serving with the RAF, so that they did not have an opportunity to find anything out his history.

( Alan died c1955 whilst serving with RAF on Cold War Soviet Naval observations when his plane went mysteriously missing) .

Any information is welcomed.

[Graham Stewart]

As far as I'm aware the original Companies of Imperial Yeomanry left South Africa in 1901 and the new Companies of Imperial Yeomanry(123rd to 177th), were formed and were known as the "second contingent". These were formed without connection to their parent units and so only three of the Companies were I believe were given sub-titles(175th(Irish Horse), 176th(Irish Horse) & 177th(Fincastles Horse)), whereas nearly all of the "first contingent" Companies,I.Y. had a sub-title.

The second contingent began arriving in South Africa around 1902, so I would think(although not 100% certain) he would have still qualified for a KSA.

Thomas Clare isn't an uncommon name from the NorthWest, but among the National Archives was a 1332 Trooper Thomas Clare serving with the Cheshire Yeomanry. Considering he previously served in the I.Y., then he may have gone on to serve in the Cheshire Yeomanry during 1914-18. Do you have any photo's we could possibly view, which show badges etc???

Edited September 11, 2008 by Graham Stewart

[Graham Stewart]

Although not associated with your original enquiry, I managed to find this link in relation to the loss of Alan Clare who disappeared in 1955 along with other crew members of two Shackleton Aircraft of the R.A.F., which may be of interest to you if not already known about;-

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons...n-aircraft-loss

[FHgdbell08]

Although not associated with your original enquiry, I managed to find this link in relation to the loss of Alan Clare who disappeared in 1955 along with other crew members of two Shackleton Aircraft of the R.A.F., which may be of interest to you if not already known about;-

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons...n-aircraft-loss

Hi Graham

thank you for link- it is information I dont have but his son Alan Clare may have come across it in his research into his fathers death.

I will pass it on.

Just for my interest, where did you find Alan Clare senior, information?

[FHgdbell08]

As far as I'm aware the original Companies of Imperial Yeomanry left South Africa in 1901 and the new Companies of Imperial Yeomanry(123rd to 177th), were formed and were known as the "second contingent". These were formed without connection to their parent units and so only three of the Companies were I believe were given sub-titles(175th(Irish Horse), 176th(Irish Horse) & 177th(Fincastles Horse)), whereas nearly all of the "first contingent" Companies,I.Y. had a sub-title.

The second contingent began arriving in South Africa around 1902, so I would think(although not 100% certain) he would have still qualified for a KSA.

Thomas Clare isn't an uncommon name from the NorthWest, but among the National Archives was a 1332 Trooper Thomas Clare serving with the Cheshire Yeomanry. Considering he previously served in the I.Y., then he may have gone on to serve in the Cheshire Yeomanry during 1914-18. Do you have any photo's we could possibly view, which show badges etc???

Thanks Graham,

there are some old photos, that in the next week I will be able to scan and upload.

[Graham Stewart]

For the Hansard/Shackleton link all I did was Google "RAF aircraft losses 1955" and it came up with the Hansard report discussing the loss in Parliament.

[perce]

Hi

Here's a bit more about the shakelton crash. Did some research on it when I worked at St Mawgan and lived at St Eval

Date:11 JAN 1955Time:ca 21:00Type:Avro Shackleton MR.2Operator:Royal Air Force - RAFRegistration:WG531C/n / msn:First flight:1952-08-21 Crew:Fatalities: 9 / Occupants: 9Passengers:Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 0Total:Fatalities: 9 / Occupants: 9 Collision casualties:Fatalities: 9Airplane damage:Written offAirplane fate:Written off (damaged beyond repair)Location:S off Fastnet Rock, Ireland (Atlantic Ocean) Phase:En route (ENR)Nature:MilitaryDeparture airport:St Eval RAF Station, United KingdomDestination airport:St Eval RAF Station, United Kingdom

Two Avro Shackleton planes (WG531 and WL743) of RAF No. 42 Squadron departed RAF St Eval on a routine exercise off the Fastnet Rock, off Ireland.

The two aircraft left St Eval at 10:14 and 10:20 respectively to carry out a 15 hour patrol and search exercise. Although they left with just six minutes separation, radio messages were received indicating that the two captains had adjusted their separation and that up to 20:00 that night were flying at the prescribed 85 miles distance from one another.

From 20:58 all contact was lost. Both aircraft were missing and never found despite a three-day search. It is assumed that both aircraft collided.

More than 11 years later when the starboard outer engine of WL743 was trawled up off the southwest Irish coast, about 75 miles north of the assumed collision point.

Cheers

Perce

[FHgdbell08]

Hi Perce

Thanks for response

Graham

[FHgdbell08]

Update so far

Thanks to Kevin Asplin, I have received the following information which he found from the National Archives

Thomas Clare was aged 20 years 8 months when he signed up with the 157th Company 35th Battalion I.Y.on the 14th Jan 1902 (Chester)

He spent 132 days training in UK from 14/01/1902 till 25/05/02

He was posted for 167 days to S Africa 26/05/1902 till 08/11/1902

10/10/1902 he was in Durban awaiting Embarkation onto HMT Orient

He arrived back to UK 09/11/1902 and was discharged (Aldershot) on the 15/11/1902 a total service of 306 days

From Kevins' Shipping Lists for1902, I found the following information which ties in with the above:-

Outward journey

27/05/1902 The Sicilia embarked the 35th and 36th Bns I Y and sailed from Southampton with approx 1000 men

Return journey

15/10/1902 the Orient left for UK with amongst list 106 men of the 35th Bn I.Y.

06/11/1902 the Orient arrived Queenstown due to sail 07/11/1902 for Southampton

10/11/1902 Arrived Southampton

Other groups returning on later ships

05/11/1902 the Arundel Castle sailed for UK with amongst list officers and 134 men of 35Bn I.Y.

27/11/1902 theArundel Castle arrived Southampton

13/12/1902 the Orotava sailed for UK with amongst list officers and 120 men of 35Bn I.Y.

As list did not go much beyond this date I have assumed she arrived home circa 02/01/1903

We are still working to a get more info

Thanks Graham

[FHgdbell08]

Hi its a long time since I did original post about Thomas Clare

Further info is as follows....

In 1914 he signed up for the Cheshire Yeomanry -Trooper 1332

Trained and Stationed in UK

Sent out to Egypt and Palestine until 1917 when the Yeomanry were disbanded and joined up with Shropshires

Kings Shropshire Light Infantry --Private 230845 and sent to France in 1918

He survived the war and was demobbed in 1919 to return home to work at ICI Weston Point, Runcorn until he died in 1945

If anyone can give further 'meat to the bones' of his regimental service

It would be much appreciated

[Mervyn Mitton]

Nice to see a follow-up to this very interesting post. Over the years some of our Members have moved-on - however,

many will remember your posts. I am very hopeful that one of the research members will be able to take the story

forward for you. Mervyn

[QSAMIKE]

Good Morning Everyone........

Just an additional note since I collect medals named to Clare........

I have the following "Thomas's" .....

CLARE, T. (Thomas)

REG. NO.: T1-2634 (T1, T2, T3 & T4 - Horse Transport - ASC.)

RANK: PRIVATE

REGT: ARMY SERVICE CORPS

MEDAL: 1914-15 STAR, 1914-1918 WAR MEDAL, INTERALLIED VICTORY MEDAL

CLARE, T. (Thomas)

REG. NO.: 3371

RANK: PRIVATE

REGT: MANCHESTER REGIMENT, 11th BATTALION

MEDAL: 1914 - 18 INTERALLIED VICTORY MEDAL

CLARE, T. (Thomas)

REG. NO.: 548792

RANK: DRIVER

REGT: ROYAL ENGINEERS

MEDAL: 1914 - 18 WAR MEDAL

Mike.......

[FHgdbell08]

Hello once again,

I am slowly getting to grips with Thomas Clare and what he was involved in. during his Military Service

 

1 Going back to his service with the Imperial Yeomanry  as Trooper 40901 in the 35th Battalion 157th Coy despite all research + Information from Kevin Aspinal, I still cannot find what involvement / where he actually served during his period  in South Africa.

 

2 His service with the Cheshire Yeomanry as Private 1332 began some time after war declaration  4th Aug 1914

 

What we do know from a fascinating book written in 1971 by Lt.Col Sir Richard Verdin --- The (Earl of Cheshire's ) Cheshire Yeomanry--The Last British regiment to fight on horses---

is that the Cheshire Yeomanry spent its time up till 1915 as a mounted unit which subsequently became a dismounted infantry unit on training and home defense.

On the 3rd March 1916 he and the other troops were in Devonport  aboard HMT Haverford bound for Egypt.

They disembarked in Alexandria  15th March as part of troops to guard the Suez canal areas.

According to the regimental nominal roll on 16th March 1916 he was part of Regimental HQ attached to B Squadron No 2 Troop.

From the book we know that the regiment were involved in various battles and skirmishes in Egypt and Palestine.1916 to 1917 

 

3 The story is taken up in a booklet I bought during a visit to the KSLI museum in Oct 2014

 The booklet adapted from The History of the KSLI in the Great War 1914-1918 by Major W. deB. Wood (1925)

 

The Cheshire Yeomanry amalgamated with the Shropshire Yeomanry on the 2nd March 1917 to become the 10th Battalion Kings Shropshire Light infantry 

He was given yet another service number Private 230845 and served in Palestine until 30th April 1918

The Battalion was part of the 74th Division  moved to Alexandria and boarded HMT Omrah to sail for Marseilles, France arriving on 7th May 1918

From here the 74th Division inc the 10th Battalion KSLI was deployed  into the Western Front involved in several battles until the signing of the Armistice in Nov 1918

They returned to the UK 21st June 1919 and Thomas was demobbed in July 1919 to return home to carry on working for the ICI until his death in June 1945

 

As many will know the Cheshire Yeomanry, were once again a mounted regiment in March 1920 and remained so until Feb  1942 when they gave up their horses in Egypt for the last time to become a mechanized Signals Regiment. and a whole new chapter..........

 

thanks to all subscribers for hints and leads that have helped in piecing the story together.

[QSAMIKE]

Suggest that you may try to find the following book:

 

ABSENT-MINDED BEGGER, YEOMANRY AND VOLUNTEERS IN THE  BOER WAR, by Will Bennett,  Leo Cooper Ltd., 1st Edition, 1999

 

Also post your question here:  http://www.angloboerwar.com

 

Mike

[FHgdbell08]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for info

I have looked around the internet  for the mentioned book and there are quite a few available, but unless it has specific info regarding the 3rd contingent  35th Battalion 157th Coy

I cannot justify the typical cost of £20 + postage (Some are even  requesting over £200!!).

 

If you have time could you check your copy to see if it does cover the 35th? and then I might buy a copy.

[ResearchPress]

Thomas Clare appears to have served with Cheshire Yeomanry / 10th Bn KSLI at the same time as my grandfather.

Thomas Clare (1332) probably enlisted late October 1914. (1305 enlisted 22 October and 1325 on 26 October 1914).

I can't add anything about his individual service, but as you know Cheshire Yeomanry were on coastal defence duties in Norfolk from 1914-March 1916.

I've been researching my grandfather (Thomas Minshall) and his service and have a blog. If you look at the contents page you will see quite a few articles on the Cheshire Yeomanry and hopefully it will give some insight to what life was like for the men while stationed in Norfolk.

David

[FHgdbell08]

Hi David, I have sent e-mail thanks to you for filling in another part of the jigsaw.

Also your blog is full of interesting information that will be very useful to other researchers

Graham

[ResearchPress]

Graham, hope you are OK with this but I have started a new topic on Cheshire Yeomanry. It is linked to this topic and should enable discussion of the Imperial Yeomanry to follow here and Cheshire Yeomanry to to continue in its own discussion.

David