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Hi Chris and Wildcard

Thanks for your thoughtful replies, and I agree wholeheartedly with both of your sentiments. I just found the branding of people who should or should not know any different as being the stupidest people on ebay somewhat offensive. The first word of this sites name is Gentleman's, and that is not a gentlemanly way of addressing un or under educated collectors :) I have been away for some time, and look forward to posting photos of my collections, and helping out where I can. I am, good sirs, a gentleman!

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OK Guys, any post after this that is not about fakes and sellers will be deleted. we dont want 20 pages of recriminations and hurt feelings. Best Chris

If my comments do not fit your parameters, please feel free to delete it. I understand. I have had it with this business! I have been collecting Imperial German orders and decorations for over thir

Nice post Wild Card. Best Chris

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Just yesterday, raritaetensammlerclub sold EK1 1870 B core for more than 600 euros. I didn´t bid it (combination of lack of sources and awareness of this buyer learned on forums), but despite of it I would like to know what do you think about this piece. Core looks good (except of being painted) and hardware is far from what I saw on good EK1 A cores. But in fact I have never seen good B core hardware.

Thanks in advance

Link: http://www.ebay.de/itm/OEK-1903-Eisernes-Kreuz-1-Klasse-1870-/140692265103?pt=Militaria&hash=item20c1e9988f

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I have noted the concerns of others here about this trader, however, I have also seen items that I am interested in. For instance, these miniatures. Could anyone give me an opinion please? I don't have issues with the prices, but I'm uncertain of the genuineness of them, bearing in mind previous posts here. Thanks in advance gents!


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The club is know for his cast fake of the 1870 type B core.

Some of the miniatures and ribbon bars might indeed be real. But why buy from such a person? I won't even order a piece of ribbon for 3 Euros from him anymore.

All from his offer I'm confident with is standard stuff. And standard stuff I prefer to buy from other sellers.

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Hmm, so because I ask for other peoples help, which I foolishly thought was improving my knowledge, I thought this was the way to go, because contrary to your claim that I should ask them why they think what they do about a certain piece, you are wrong. People who know what they are talking about will tell me, and in a helpful and courteous fashion, as opposed to you, why and how they feel the way about that piece. This is called learning. This in no way means I am now dependent on being spoon fed? As for your ridiculous claim that I will send out desperate emails next time I'm standing in the middle of a military show, I've never been to one. As a matter of fact, if you could find when the next one is in my city, I'd appreciate it. I have never seen one advertised here. Perhaps there has been the odd one, but they are certainly not done in the numbers you find in the states or the UK.

When I bought my first car and my first bike, and my first surfboard, and my first drum kit, and my first guitar and my first shotgun, guess what? I took along someone who was knowledgeable in all those fields. I valued their expertise, and learnt from it. How does that make me dependent on them, and failing to think for myself? I don't know any other collectors here, I haven't been to any collectors shows, or even seen them advertised, so how exactly would I have learnt without asking people on this and other sites? Now for your assertion that his items don't look good to the trained eye, they only look good to the delusional and the ignorant.

Posted 20 September 2011 - 03:15

I agree with Garfordhouse the quality seems to get better :banger: Some of the stuff I have seen recently I could easily bought if just the seller had been someone else

Arrgh this moron destroy our hobby .....


By your rationale Christer is both deluded AND ignorant. I find your aggressive and rude replies contrary to how I was brought up. I see nothing wrong with asking for advice here, and until I had the misfortune to encounter you, I had never once been told NOT to continue to ask any questions I may have here. Nobody, except you, has accused me of seeking to be spoon fed anything, and I have certainly never been accused of failing to think for myself because I ask questions. In all the time I was at university, the standard assertion from our lecturers was there is no such thing as a stupid question, just a stupid answer. I have tried to follow that advice whenever anyone seeks my advice about anything. Until you that is. It is people like you, with attitudes like yours, that drive people away from this site. It had been some time since I was last here, because I had the misfortune to encounter someone such as yourself, and within days of returning, I have encountered the same boorish manner from you. I will not interact with you again, can you do me the courtesy and do the same for me. As the site name implies, I do try to behave like a gentleman.

If there are any other people who also feel I shouldn't ask questions and seek the advice of others who know far more than I do, please let me know. But speak slowly and use small words because, after all, I am one of the stupidest people on ebay, who also can't think for myself and likes to be spoon fed :)

Edited by Troy Tempest
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If I was in the middle of big military show somewhere in Germany, I would send message through mobile internet to the forum and I believe in ten minutes there would be the answer from saschaw: Mmm, it´s a fake, I´ve already seen it before ten minutes.


But seriously, there are things I am sure with, there are others that I am unsure, so I am asking. Sometimes I am asking abut things I am not about to buy, just want to know it for the future. Being on militaria show is similar to picking mushrooms - If there is somebody who can help you, you can pick all mushrooms that are not poisonous. If you are alone, you pick only those you are sure with. Very easy.

Spoon feeding is the beginning of independence also in common life, not only in militaria collecting. I understand you, garfordhouse, and I am also sometimes angry that people on forums answer very briefly, sometimes only yes or not, without saying why. But don´t forget, there is no law that would force experienced collectors to help us. It is only their free will.

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OK Guys, any post after this that is not about fakes and sellers will be deleted.

we dont want 20 pages of recriminations and hurt feelings.



If my comments do not fit your parameters, please feel free to delete it. I understand.

I have had it with this business! I have been collecting Imperial German orders and decorations for over thirty-five years and still can't tell a Hessen-Kassel Order of the Golden Lion knight’s cross from a Hessek-Kassel Wilhelm’s Order knight’s cross. Going by the OEK, there are over 2,500 diffferent Imperial German different orders and decorations; and nobody knows everything that there is to know about each one of them.

When I started collecting, I made some mistakes. In the ensuing years I have made others. For a number of years,in my ignorance, I innocently enjoyed picking up a medal or two at local gun shows; and then one day, a dealer told me about OMSA. I tracked it down, joined and found out that throughout the world there is a small community of very diverse and otherwise normal people who collect these things. It opened the door to the world wide medal collecting community, or at least a good part of it.

It was, in great part, a result of the kindness, patience and sharing of knowledge by many of the great collectors, and dealers of that time that I was encouraged to follow this passion. I'm sure that many of my questions strained their patience. We all make mistakes; but if you don’t ask, you won’t learn; and, as I see it, one of the most important purposes of GMIC is the exchange of information from which we can all learn.

I would just like to ask for patience and understanding when responding to questions, especially from those who are just getting started. I aim this mainly ay our senior and more knowledgable members; and by that I don’t necessarily mean those who having been collecting the longest. There are still many people out there, both beginners and who have been collecting for a long time, who are out of the loop and do not know about the wealth of knowledge available to them from sources such as GMIC, WAF and OMSA.

Patience, Gentlemen, patience. We’ve all been there.

Thank you,

Wild Card

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In fact I came to this thread to say that long time I didn´t see such beautifully masked Ninth bead fake


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Sorry, I don´t know how to download pictures from that eBay frame, (but I would like to learn it).

To clear your question, there is only one cross, photographed from two distances, once with side light, then with flash. I was fooled from those first two photos taken from bigger distance, that it is some fancy prinzen. Just when I browsed those closeups, it is clearly certain Ninth Bead Fake with thin W and over and under 8. First I also thought there are two crosses offered, but seller clearly speaks "Sie bieten hier auf ein Eisernes Kreuz II Klasse 1870"

Then compare some details (for example the casting bubble under the reverse crown) and you will find them on both crosses.

If the seller had left only first two pictures, he would fool me for sure.


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  • 1 month later...

Is this "sammler-arsenal " connected to raritetensammlerclub in some way ?

And I just realized when reading this old thread that I must have been offended Troy in some way :unsure: I had never said a bad word about Troy , the only person I , in a moment of´bad judgement called moron was our "raritetensammlerclub" which I honest really think destroy our hobby..

So please forgive me Troy if you thought it was you I meant . The End

Ps , I do like your beer ;)


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Hi Christer!

Jag verkligen inte styra mina kommentarer på dig mate. De skulle vara inriktade på garfordhouse :(Jag respekterar alltid min äldste! Även om det bara är genom två år :) I hope this makes sense!

Edited by Troy Tempest
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