saschaw Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 No, no "bling bling" at all. No Gold, not even much silver. Just mostly bronce. Still, the (at least in my humble opinion) best medal bar from my father's collection and I didn't want to miss to show it at least in the "old year", as I now forgot to show it for quite a time: it's living with us for more than a year, after it came up on eBay.com in August 2007 and went home from the U.S. to Baden. So now here it is and I hope you like it... Wild Card, do you? I think so... It's absolutely nothing exciting at first view. Just take a second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) The bar is a bit messed with, I think we're going to fix that at some point. Still, the main medal is right and in it's right place: the engraved Felddienst-Auszeichnung for the actions in 1848, with exactly 50 medals awarded for the battles at "Freiburg", "Staufen", "Kandern" and "Güntersthal". Four different engravings, and 50 is the total for all. Does anyone know another mounted piece? I have non seen by now... Edited April 17, 2023 by saschaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Very nice medal bar. Is there a name on the third medal on the back? I can't clearly see it. Do you have a name for this bar ? Happy new yearChristophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Y Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Fantastic If you ever get tired of it let me know :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 The bar is a bit messed with, I think we're going to fix that at some point. Still, the main medal is right and in it's right place: the engraved Felddienst-Auszeichnung for the actions in 1848, with exactly 50 medals awarded for the battles at "Freiburg", "Staufen", "Kandern" and "G?ntersthal". Four different engravings, and 50 is the total for all. Does anyone know another mounted piece? I have non seen by now...Hello Saschaw:WOW!!!!!Congratulations to you and your father for owning such a rare and beautiful group (I don't care about the lack of enamel, gold, or silver)!I only ever recall seeing one other group with a genuine engraved Felddienst-Auszeichnung. Many years ago, there was an 1870-71 Baden Officer's group for sale in a US auction. The OZL was missing from the group and the reverse of the group was not shown in the catalogue. The group didn't seem that significant and I didn't give it a second notice. Eric Ludvigsen was the winner of the lot in the auction. One day when I was visiting him, he showed me the reverse of the group! I nearly fell to the floor! The campaign medal was engraved! Unfortunately, I do not specifically remember which battle name was engraved on the medal, and unfortunately, I do not remember the exact awards (1870 EKII, OZL, Baden campaign medal with battle name engraved, 1870 campaign......??????)After Eric passed-away I kept thinking that the group would surface in a Thies auction, but it never did. I do not know where it went, but there may be some members who visit this site that might know.I have been checking the back of every Baden campaign medal that I see ever since seeing that group, but sadly no luck!Best regards,"SPM" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 So now here it is and I hope you like it... Wild Card, do you? I think so... It's absolutely nothing exciting at first view. Just take a second one. You know me too well! What away to start the new year. For the most part, things will go downhill from here. Sincere thanks for sharing this with us and congratulations to you and your father on your good fortune.?SPM? -I will check Eric?s archives to see if there is a record of the bar which you mention; I vaguely remember it as well. As to it?s fate, I have a hunch... will PM you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Thanks gentlemen for your nice words. It would be really great if someone finds pictures of the group from the former Ludvigsen collection. I'm aware of three more medals by now: one in a museum in Freiburg, one in the WGM in Rastatt and one more in a private collection here in Germany - but none more mounted one. In Orden Militaria-Magazin 40 from about 1990 there was one engraved medal in a mounted group shown, but that was a common medal with additional engravement. As the wearer (who also got silver and gold grade of the Karl Friedrich medal!) is not on the list for the 1848 medal, it is very likely he was awarded it later. Noone seems to know when or how. And yes, it seems there indeed is a list. Maybe I can get that, and maybe I can even get a name for that bar... Please, could you give me any advice regarding the little mess on the bar? The bar was for sure not worn like this. The two common "Felddienstauszeichnungen" should be removed, the "Brudermordmedaille" put to it's correct ribbon, the miniatures removed, then all would be fine. Then, still the first medal is missing: a civil) merit medal, but I have no idea what issue - could be merely anything from 1848 to 1902 era... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I would assume the added Minis etc were maybe done by the vet?I would think twice about changing anything on it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Hello again Sascha:I too would vote to leave this bar as it is!Either the veteran or his family (after he passed-away) undoubtedly sewed the miniature medals to the bar. I would bet that he actually wore this thing this way in later years!To mess with it would be a shame. To make it comform with regulation and statutes would take away from its historical significance in my opinion.Happy New Year!"SPM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I am in complete agreement with Chris Boonzaier on this. If, through a stroke of exceptionally good fortune this bar was to come my way, there is no way that I would change it. Please consider leaving it as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Gentlemen,I am happy to inform you that I think that I have found the group from Eric Ludvigsen?s archives to which SPM referred. According to Eric?s notes, he felt that this bar most likely belonged to Major Carl Wilhelm Sp?rin, sometime Archivist to the First Chamber of the Baden Parliament. I apologize for the quality of these reproduction scans (Rick, it is not an ?Epson? thing). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 With regard to the medal of interest, Eric?s notes are as follow:Baden, Grand Duchy of, Field Service Decoration with ?Freiburg? (1848) Reverse and clasps ?1848? and ?1870-71?.Cannon Bronze31.0mm D x 3.5mm T (mounting prevents measurement of height with loop)Clasp ?1870-1871?: 38.2mm W x 5.2mm HClasp ?1848?: 38.6mm W x 5.3mm H?Freiburg? engraved in script on reverse; clasps slipped on ribbon with back plates; the ribbon is the normal one, although the all-highest grand ducal order of 4 Sep 1849 permitted wear on the ribbon of the Military Karl Friedrich Order Knight for recipients of the medals engraved with the names of 1848 engagements against rebel forces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Hello Wildcard:Thank you very much for finding the particulars regarding this outstanding group! It is good to see the image of it and see what else was there (it was a few years since I had seen it and I could not remember).This was a fantastic group that Eric was very proud to own!Best regards,"SPM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) WOW! Now that is a bar. Thank you for digging up the pictures, Wild Card. I think I've never before seen such an old civil merit medal mounted before... PS: I found a Major a.D. Karl Spörin living in Hirschstraße 29 in Karlsruhe in 1891. May well be him... Now back to our bar: the thread is old, but I don't know how old. The 1849 "Brudermordmedaille" is fixed on a Carl Friedrich ribbon at the wrong place, fixed at the same time and with the same thread as the miniatures are. I cannot imagine it was done live time and worn like this. Keep in mind, there's one of his awards, and actually the "highest" one missing! But with action in 1848 and alive in 1902 to get the jubilee medal, he might have died presumably in about 1910 to 1920, at a age of 80 to 90 years. If we asuume he had a father and he had as well a son, both being soldiers, those two may be the origin of the two additional Felddienstausezichnungen: one for Napoleonic wars, the other one for 1866 and 1870/71. Or both from sons, whatever. We're thinking about to change or not to change for more than a year now and I actually would like to. All could be done very quickly and without any questions but replacing the first medal: that would need to know what issue as it may be litterally anything. I don't think anyone here has the list handy, does someone?! If not, I might try it at our archives... and with the name, one should get to know when he was given the silver merit medal: weather in 1850 or in 1880 or in 1905... Restore as worn or keep as what the ignorant family later made of it? I really accepts and appreciate your opinions on it and as well would not change a bar that has been worn by the recipient like this - but this one wasn't, I'm almost sure. Edited March 8, 2023 by saschaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K. Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Restore as worn or keep as what the ignorant family later made of it? I really accepts and appreciate your opinions on it and as well would not change a bar that has been worn by the recipient like this - but this one wasn't, I'm almost sure.Beautiful bar! Stunning!Ultimately it is your choice, but I would keep the bar as is.....it has character....and could possibly tell a story as you explained with a father and son(s) additions. If altered, this would be lost.Could possibly the first position be the 1861 Coronation medal? but maybe he does not hold the rank for being there. also seems unlikely given the hanger system on the reverse.Steve Edited January 7, 2009 by Steve K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I think the bar is so great and unique because it is like it is.... it reeks of a certain history and care by the family.Any changes will simply be a remounted bar.Might as well replace the ribbons then, trade out a medal or two for ones in better condition etc... Just MHO ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Y Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Don't change it please :unsure: Edited January 7, 2009 by Tom Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) Many thanks for all opinions and comments. Steve K. said: Could possibly the first position be the 1861 Coronation medal? but maybe he does not hold the rank for being there. also seems unlikely given the hanger system on the reverse. No, not a 1861 medal. I think I've never seen that to a Badener. A solid yellow ribbon on a Baden bar is for a civil merit medal, or for Prussian 1897 medal - but with that hanger it cannot be something else but a Baden CMM. Chris Boonzaier said: Might as well replace the ribbons then, trade out a medal or two for ones in better condition etc... Well, that is a little bit something different, but still, I get your point and it won't be changed, at least for the moment. By the way, as it's from my father's collection this is not my decision at all... 😜 Chris Boonzaier said: I think the bar is so great and unique because it is like it is.... Hmm, it will remain great and unique, what ever I could do. I think if I'll ever get a name for it done and get to know when (and so which) merit medal he - who then has a name - had, it will rather be changed... but we'll see... Edited March 8, 2023 by saschaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 :Cat-Scratch: "as it's from my father's collection this is not my decision at all"Sooooooo.... you are NOT the Sole Heir then?I am eligible for adoption, and being MUCH older than you, that would make ME the Eldest Son for all the rules of primogeniture. Baden is a big empty hole in my collection, so that would work out VERY nicely. :catjava: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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