Turkey Turkish Star Variant

[Tim B]

I have only seen one other of this particular style shown in an old thread by Heiko. Any clue to the maker of this piece?

One piece enamel. Note the center bottom lettering.

Thanks!

Tim

[Tim B]

Reverse. Has a nice vault to it. I note that the star tips appear slightly flatter on the tops of the balls, but it appears to be made that way and not from hand vaulting.

Tim

[Tim B]

Slightly smaller than the BB&Co. award.

Tim

[ccj]

Slightly smaller than the BB&Co. award.

Tim

Nice, and excellent photos.

[Josef Rietveld]

IMHO this variant is a newmade fake that appears constantly on ebay and other marketplaces in the last 2 to 3 vears. (see ebay-pictures)

EBAY LINK

why do i think so:

I see a one part-construction. made in casting-technique. then thin enamel was added in the style of some known 1930ies-examples.

It ist definitely not silver and looks as it was washed with some liquid to create an oldstyle patina. Especially on the backside. the needle-sytem (hinge, eyelet, hook) isIMHO the same that was used by the rarit?ten...club for his restrikes of german states steckkreuze. (forinstens Mecklenburg MVK 1. Klasse)

just my two cents

josef

[paul wood]

IMHO this variant is a newmade fake that appears constantly on ebay and other marketplaces in the last 2 to 3 vears. (see ebay-pictures)

EBAY LINK

why do i think so:

I see a one part-construction. made in casting-technique. then thin enamel was added in the style of some known 1930ies-examples.

It ist definitely not silver and looks as it was washed with some liquid to create an oldstyle patina. Especially on the backside. the needle-sytem (hinge, eyelet, hook) isIMHO the same that was used by the rarit?ten...club for his restrikes of german states steckkreuze. (forinstens Mecklenburg MVK 1. Klasse)

just my two cents

josef

Dear Josef,

Thank you very much for the most useful information.

Paul

[Ulsterman]

I agree. While I have only been collecting these for a decade or so, I have only noticed this variant over the past few months.

Somebody in the UK was making stars @ 5-6 years ago as "reenactors' medals", so maybe the original production run has now hit the marketplace.

[avsaribar]

Hi There ,

I also bealive it is an Europian made fake.

But you can be sure that it is not Turkish made fake.

I see nearly all the Turkish made fakes and they are worse then this one.

All the best ,

Avsar Ibar

[Tim B]

Hi guys,

Wow! I am dismayed by this news. I looked over past threads and noted one in the group by member Heiko that shown several pieces and was pretty sure this one matched one of his. Nothing was said about it being fake then and it's been sometime ago, so I know he didn't just get his piece recently.

I didn't buy this one off ebay, but through a fairly respected dealer. I understand that don't really mean anything, but...

In fact, I got the BB&Co. off ebay!!

If Heiko is available, can you compare your Star to mine and add your thoughts?

Not good news, but thanks ; maybe I can get my money back.

Tim

Edited January 28, 2009 by Tim B

[Josef Rietveld]

Hi guys,

.....

Not good news, but thanks ; maybe I can get my money back.

Tim

Hope so, sorry for beeing the bearer of such a bad message

josef

[Tim B]

Josef,

Not at all my friend! Yes, it was really dissapointing to find this out as I really like the award and have just started to collect these. I am very happy with the BB&Co. piece and thought this one was of inferior workmanship, but in really great shape.

Honestly, the first impression I had when looking at the piece was F&$K!!! Is this real or not and the finish on the back concerned me. Then I thought maybe it was a 1930's manufactured issue. Either way, I would rather hear the truth and get a fake out of my collection instead of trying to pass it on as original down the road.

Now we can add another fake to the archives!

Thanks again everybody! Until next time. Oh, the dealer was very shocked, apologetic and will of course offer me a full refund or credit for something else if desired, no questions!

Cheers!

Tim

[Ulsterman]

Well, remember, this is only our opinions. I haven't kept pictures of "reenactors stars"so can not be definitive.

We have been wrong before and sometimes err overly on the side of caution.

Please hold on to it-just in case. It's another datapoint. For all I know it could be a Bulgarian made varient from the 1930s ...odder things have happened (like that Sedalzek Baltic Cross I once sent back was a real vets' piece proven by a photograph no less).

Still if avsibar and others here thinks its a fake......

Edited January 30, 2009 by Ulsterman

[Tim B]

Well guys,

I already told the dealer that its coming back. We shouldn't condemn pieces that we don't know for sure on and in the future, just say we don't know, instead of jumping on the bandwagon.

I will try to take one more PIC of the star edges, but IMO, this is not a cast. It shows clear edge striations indicating it was die stamped. The reverse patina concerns me, but I have seen these type washes on original WWII pieces, so I just don't know.

I really wanted to hear from Heiko that had one in his group, but until now, nothing. So, for the price paid I will not just hold on to it when I can use the money to get something else that I am 100% sure on.

Thanks anyway,

Tim

[Tim B]

Alright,

I took a couple PICS of the edge showing "what I think" is evidence of die stamping. There is a small ridge, but I don't think its a casting line, but instead the edge where the die is tapered so that the piece comes out of the die easier when stamped.

I really need honest opinions/answers here, so no sugar coating or half guessing please. I can lose this piece and prefer to on the side of caution, but lets really try to be accurate if we can.

The item is boxed up now and ready to go to the post; if there's a chance, I need to know before it goes and I would like to mail it out today if possible.

I meant to add; the weight on this one is 17.0 grams. I didn't bother to measure the dimensions.

Thank you,

Tim

PICS are best I can do, sorry.

Edited January 30, 2009 by Tim B

[Tim B]

A little bit different angle. These striations are pretty much all around, but this edge and a couple more are more pronounced than the others.

Tim

[Tim B]

Cmon guys!

I took the time to take additional PICS showing what I thought proves this is not a cast piece and held the piece back from the post for a couple of days and now, no inputs??

What is the opinion now? Has it changed, or is the concensus still that this is a current fake

Tim

I guess Heiko Gruskat is unavailable for comment on the piece he showed several posts back??

[Tim B]

Well, don't know why I bother, but to close this one out.

The star is on it's way back to the dealer.

Prior to sending it, I took it back out and took one more PIC after closely examing it. Honestly, overall, the star was much thinner than the BB&Co. piece (only two I have in hand to compare) but the edge striations were very similar and some of those striations were above that die line as well as below it, in areas that would have been impossible to have remain if a file had been used and too fine to be casting lines.

I will provide this last PIC to show an area where either a dirty die or cast fill left remains, but it is the only area IMO that alludes to casting and honestly, I have seen this sort of "fill" on original Weimar era pieces as well.

So..? Who cares now. Good luck!

Tim