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Hello!

Is anybody there to help me in identifying non-german uniforms? I?ve got this photo, I think it shoe an international control mission. Mistery is the asian one near the middle with a japanese field-cap and a german field jacket 07/10 with swdish cuffs.

Any ideas?

Thanx in advance!

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Hello!

Is anybody there to help me in identifying non-german uniforms? I?ve got this photo, I think it shoe an international control mission. Mistery is the asian one near the middle with a japanese field-cap and a german field jacket 07/10 with swdish cuffs.

Any ideas?

Thanx in advance!

Can you please make a larger scan of the photo?

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Yes-- zoom in and crop enlarged close up shots of just the individual officers-- also the foreign officer 3rd from the left. :beer:

From the spiked helmets still being worn, I suspect this was taken during the war and these are visiting military attach?s.

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Hi, Paul and Rick!

I try to make a closer shot of the photo. Unfotunately I can upload max of 70KB...The original size is 1,3MB to see all details.

Yes, It must be a wartime photo, because of the helmets and the iron crosses. (They won?t have served in 70/71...)

Here?s the photo again: (It caused a lot of confusion in several german forums...)

Edited by The Prussian

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Old members will have heard this song from me many times before but-- get an EPSON scanner. NO other kind. You can make huge clear low-KB size scans with that. At 150 dpi this is only 30.3KB---

I believe the foreign officer on the left is Swiss or Swedish and your "Japanese" is actually Spanish or South American. Neutral visitors. If the original photo had been taken closer to them all so insignia were more visible I could narrow that down some. :cheers:

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Hi Rick!

Oops, that?s a good result. I?ve got an canon lide25. I think, I will have a look for Epson scanners later...

Well, a lot of people say, the one is from Switzerland. That could be. But I don?t agree with your spanish one. I think you mean another one? "My " Japanese has defiantly asian eyes, and (I think so) a japanese field cap. I see a german 07/10 jacket but with a magnifier I recognize a button upon his left collar. (Not a german "Gefreitenknopf" - this one here is right in the front)

Edited by The Prussian

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Ah... missed him.

I agree-- that is a GERMAN tunic. Doesn't simply "look" like a German tunic-- as you say it IS a German tunic. I can't even IMAGINE what the hat is supposed to be. That is NOT the shape of Japanese hats, and the VERY "Soviet" ( :speechless1: ) star is too big!!! (Japan was also at war with Germany from 1914....)

The ONLY suggestion I would make--in the complete absence of any uniform information--

Siamese?

What other Asian nation was independent and neutral circa 1915/16?

China was, technically, but the uniform is not at all similar-- and I don't know about hat badges.

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Ah... missed him.

I agree-- that is a GERMAN tunic. Doesn't simply "look" like a German tunic-- as you say it IS a German tunic. I can't even IMAGINE what the hat is supposed to be. That is NOT the shape of Japanese hats, and the VERY "Soviet" ( :speechless1: ) star is too big!!! (Japan was also at war with Germany from 1914....)

The ONLY suggestion I would make--in the complete absence of any uniform information--

Siamese?

What other Asian nation was independent and neutral circa 1915/16?

China was, technically, but the uniform is not at all similar-- and I don't know about hat badges.

Ricky, :beer: as Siam / Burma issued a version of the Inter-allied Victory Medal, that possibly rules them out. :unsure:

Any chance he is of native South American extraction?? Ecuador, Chile, Venezuela ?

Kevin in Deva :beer:

Edited by Kev in Deva

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That was later. They also "Italy'd" in the Second War and switched about the week before surrender to miraculously come out on the winning side.

From the circa 1915-16 M15 Blusen, spike helmets, and the Old Style ribbon bar being worn, there could just as well have been an American attach? in there since the U.S. was neutral... until April 1917.

There is VERY weird cuff insignia on the ?Swiss/?Swede which should sort HIM out, but I don't have good uniform sources. The Dutch officer (collar patches) is also atypically wearing a German style cap rather than a kepi. The "Spanish" officer is probably South American from the cockade on top of his cap-- simply cannot see what exactly his Spanish-type insignia is.

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I?m very glad to see, the photo is very interesting for the other gentlemen. For me it?s like a deja-vu to the german forum. I?ve heard a lot of different countries, but no result...

Anyway, I took a few close-ups of the particular soldiers.

Rick I agree with the spanish uniform. But the only book about international uniforms is the Kn?tel.

Here?s the first close-up

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There seems to be an oval design on the collar of the jacket :unsure: ?

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Edited by Kev in Deva

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Seems to be a strap for passing a waist belt through? :unsure:

Balkans? Bulgarian??

Kevin in Deva.

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Hi Kev!

I don?t know, how often I looked in the "Kn?tel". This picture is one of the strangest, I?ve ever seen. My main problem is still the uniform of the asian one. Is that a german one? Swedish cuffs? OK, 8 buttons? OK. The "button" at the collar seemed to be oval, you?re right. But it?s only at one single side.

I attached the rest of the photo. I sse swedish and brandenburgish cuffs, and a 19 upon the helmet. Is the covered helmet a spiked helmet or one with a ball? I think it?s artillery.

Edited by The Prussian

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Aha. #10 above settles it-- that is a CROWN on the top of his cap, so Spanish and not one of the South American Republics. :cheers:

#11.... those freaky cuffs and the GIGANTIC sabers design make me think "Swiss" rarher than "Swedish," but I just don't have enough uniform knowledge here.

#12 I thought was Dutch from his collar patches-- despite not wearing a Kepi. Now... I wonder if he is Danish or Norwegian--

the problem here seems to be that all these officers but the "Sw...." and the Spaniard are wearing uniforms they made up for themselves :speechless1::cheeky: either out of German ones or with German shoulder boards added to their own proper insignia. :speechless:

I've been to look in the 1917 Hof- und- Staats-kalendar and there were only three independent Asian countries recognized by the Second Reich--

1) Japan-- an enemy power. Scratch Japan as a possibility

2) CHINA

3) SIAM (Thailand)

so he HAS to be from either China or Thailand.

That may just be the angle or looseness of the cover on the "19" helmet. I couldn't guess if that is a spike or a ball.

Why no inscription on back????? Agggggggghhhhhh. :banger:

We are very easy to amuse/bemuse. :catjava:

:cheers:

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Hi Rick!

Many thanks for your help. I 100% agree with the spanish one. The crown proved it. Denmark? Norway? Possible... But I?m not happy with my asian comrade. The face is defiantly japanese. A friend of mine travelled a lot of times to China. He said the same. The face, the moustache and the height do not fit to China. Well, Siam? But where can I have a look at Siam?s uniforms?

Yes, unfortunataley ther? s nothing written on the back. If I see the house in the beackground or the plants and trees around, it seemed to me an "east-front-picture"

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The photo must be taken between 1915 and 1918, because some of them wear iron crosses, and one of them wears a Bluse M15. This one was intruduced in september 1915

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Could the Eastern looking gemm'un be Chilean? I think the star on his cap would fit, and they were neutral, but favoring Germany.

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Hi Tom!

Chilean? That?s a brand new view! Thank you, but I?ve read in the Kn?tels, they had the chilean heraldic figure and above a cocarde.

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But why would he sew on a button upon the collar? It?s not a sergeants-button, that was more in the rear

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The Japanese field cap looks correct for the Taisho era, but I'm no expert. I'm sure there is one on the forum, though.

Looking at the one Meiji-period cap I have, the star looks about right. The Japanese stars of the period were very big.

What about Siam? The Belgian Musee d'Armee has a bunch of their uniforms on display. You may want to try to find some pictures online, I've seen them before. The Siamese actually did have I believe some ground troops and an aviation detachment on the Western Front so such an officer ending up in Germany is possible if highly unlikely.

~TS

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The Japanese field cap looks correct for the Taisho era, but I'm no expert. I'm sure there is one on the forum, though.

Looking at the one Meiji-period cap I have, the star looks about right. The Japanese stars of the period were very big.

What about Siam? The Belgian Musee d'Armee has a bunch of their uniforms on display. You may want to try to find some pictures online, I've seen them before. The Siamese actually did have I believe some ground troops and an aviation detachment on the Western Front so such an officer ending up in Germany is possible if highly unlikely.

~TS

Siam is impossible. She joined the allies, their uniforms were modelled on British uniforms and her people are not very tall.

As for Burma, mentioned by someone in an earlier post, she was a part of the British Empire and then a province of India.

Cheers

James

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