Jacques Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 This is one of the hardest cross to find. Only around 315 were awarded to the family of the soldiers dead in Spain.The cross is suspended to a ribbon which mix german and spanish national colors.the cross is smaller than the other one: 41 x 41 mm, 12g.It is very well detailed. the swasticas of the eagles are cut out (another variant exits with massive ones).It is unmarked. All the marked ones have to be considered as copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted November 19, 2005 Author Share Posted November 19, 2005 The cross was delivered in a case. the upper lid shows a gilded cross stamped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Hi Jaques, superb piece. Every bit as nice as the cased one CB had a few years back. This makes only 2 I've seen. Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 Hi Jaques, superb piece. Every bit as nice as the cased one CB had a few years back. This makes only 2 I've seen. Excellent!This one isn't mine (it still lack to my collection). this one came with a group of a member of the Pz Gruppe Drohne who died in Spain.I hope to find this very variant one of these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 The group of which the cross came with belonged to a former Pz gruppe Drohne member. The familly received the documents for the next of kin cross, the spanish cross in bronze with swords which he was awarded posthumously, and the document for the medal "sufrimientos por la patria". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 the familly also received a folio with a drawing showing the location of the soldier remembrance plaque and some pics of it. the document is originally signed by von Thoma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 A lovely group - thanks for posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 not only do you find nice pieces,they are essentially always in beautifullypreserved/maintained condition!my congratulations.while LC history is not my primary focus,you always make it interesting!thanks,joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 Thank you ! I would have prefer the group mine , but ....Sorry for the quality of the pics, it was dark and I was hurry. Next time, there will be better.the group include the spanish cross in bronze with sword marked "CEJ", the cross for next of kin, the medal ''sufrimientos por la patria" for privates and NCOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Very nice!! This is the first one I have ever seen!!PAul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted November 29, 2005 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 Here is another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 It is very well detailed. the swasticas of the eagles are cut out (another variant exits with massive ones).It is unmarked. All the marked ones have to be considered as copy. Hello Jacques,I stumbled on this remark in "Deutsche Auszeichnungen" by Dr. K.G. Klietmann :"in a few cases the manufacturer is mentioned on the reverse. Thus, as an example, on the left cross arm "J. GODET / u. SOHN / BERLIN" and on the right cross arm : "938", meaning the cross is in silver and bronze coloured." - You would disagree with this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 Hello,I absolutly disagree with that. These crosses stamped "L/12 J. GODET / u. SOHN / BERLIN 938" are known copies. May be it was not the case when these books from Klietmann or Angolia were written.jacquesHello Jacques,I stumbled on this remark in "Deutsche Auszeichnungen" by Dr. K.G. Klietmann :"in a few cases the manufacturer is mentioned on the reverse. Thus, as an example, on the left cross arm "J. GODET / u. SOHN / BERLIN" and on the right cross arm : "938", meaning the cross is in silver and bronze coloured." - You would disagree with this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Hello,I absolutly disagree with that. These crosses stamped "L/12 J. GODET / u. SOHN / BERLIN 938" are known copies. May be it was not the case when these books from Klietmann or Angolia were written.jacques Jacques,On those I agree with you 100 % but Klietmann does specifically insist on the Godet name on the left cross arm and the "938" on the right cross arm. I've never seen one of those that he describes, only, as in your picture, copies which include the LDO number (which Klietmann doesn't mention at all). It did sound a bit much to have the whole of the Godet name and the city of Berlin on just the one cross arm ! For the sake of completion, here's another copy (sorry for the bad picture) which is silver coloured, has "L/21" on the left and Godet etc. on the bottom cross arm. Hardly visible in the bad picture but there's "938" on the right cross arm ! The lengths those people go to to fake it (and then forgetting about the bronze finish !).Thanks for your input on this, it's nice to exchange views on such matters. [attachmentid=19195] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 In his book "Auszeichnungen des Deutschen Reiches" he didn't mention it anymore. I found this article in my doc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 another article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 an original one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 Does somebody knows this kind of ribbon montage ? the pic is too blurred to tell if the cross is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Seems to be the standad way of moiunting medals to be worn by women.BestChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gregory Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Does somebody knows this kind of ribbon montage ? the pic is too blurred to tell if the cross is OK.Jaques,It looks exactly like the "lady's bow" style used for non-combattant awards of the Imperial era and I have seen it used for the next-of-kin version of the Hindenburg cross.David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 1) 938 is the German marking for silver-GILT. There would be, naturally, no marking for silver-bronzed since that only brings to mind the ancient joke about the Olympics gold winner so proud of his victory that he had his medal bronzed. 2) I am stunned that Herr Dachgruber apparently considers blacklighting that shows "white lights up" is a GOOD thing. For all the seemingly undying theoretical "arguments" about dye patent dates = hypothetically (i.e. imaginary) actual usage and so on, I have NEVER in 40 years EVER encountered original German ribbons, well into the 1960s, which would "light up" white as bright electric blue (and this is the only "bad" fluorescence to be concerned with) under a blacklight which are not POST-1960s fakes. While I cannot pretend to ANY knowledge of this cross, I do rather think my German ribbons expertise is authoritative. It would be interesting to do a survey of how many REAL examples of this cross are known in reputable collections today, given the endless thousands of fakes out there. How many genuine ones can you Spanish specialists account for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Williams Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Rick! don't start me on any more projects!! And ,,.oh fine... I am sure you have seen one or two ribbons before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 It would be interesting to do a survey of how many REAL examples of this cross are known in reputable collections today, given the endless thousands of fakes out there. How many genuine ones can you Spanish specialists account for? I have in my files around 15 crosses like the first shown in this thread ,that look original, from private collections, books or sold by dealers. A single ribbon is to sell on Militariaweb. Don't know if it glows ...jacques Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 It has always been my hope to someday see an original medal bar with one of these in it to a WW1 veteran-- after all, the average father of someone in their 20s in the late 1930s would presumably have been called up for 1914-18 service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 That would be an interesting bar to see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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