dblmed Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 (edited) Thanks! The SCHUMA is another one of the 'poorly' understood Police Auxilliary Organizations (much like the TeNo ? TN was, before "German Police, Vol. 2" was published.)It is my understanding that the SCHUMA will be covered in the next volume of the Bender series - "German Police, Vol. 3."But, I have no idea when the next volume will be released! I can not imagine the amount of research which will be needed, in order to cover ALL of the SCHUMA. However, if "Vol. 2" is any indication - then in "Vol. 3" we'll be in for an educational treat, as well as the "Eye Candy" of Super Photos & TR Items, of the SCHUMA, plus many other Core Polizei Organizations. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed Edited July 5, 2009 by dblmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 Schuma Batl. 64 Here is a Schuma ID Tag that I have - for a man in Schuma Batl. 64 With a neat commentary from a fellow Collector - Mr. Dogtag - Al (on WAF)"...Yes Schuma 64 Btl. was a Belorussian Schuma Bataillon and it was later incorporated into 30 Waffen Grenenadier Belorussian SS Division.These Belorussian Schuma tags were recovered in Poland some 60 km north from Warsaw. Actually it's an interesting story.A friend of mine went metaldetecting in an old 19th cent battlefield. Suddenly a local villager came and noticed a tag on my friend's neck. He said that he's got one in his house as there were some 100 or more at the attic left over by Germans. He brought the tag but said that the rest were thrown away when they were tiding up the attic in 70-ties. We have spent some 2 years before we found the field where the tags were spread by plough all over the place..."(Courtesy of Mr. Dogtag - Al / Poland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 Here is a 273 Schuma ID (Dogtag) - Don't know which Country the Unit drew it's men. ...Dave/dblmedThen, with another neat commentary from a fellow Collector - Mr. Dogtag - Al (on WAF)"...Hi Dave....I could find some info about Schutzmannschaften Batl. 273. It was formed in the eastern part of Latvia. In 15.07.43 the Battalion was added to Schutzmannschaften. Batl. 276.A month later Schutzm. Batl. 276 became IV Batl. in Lett. Pol. Regt. 1., which in the end of 1944 joined SS Waffen Grenadiere Division (Lett.) 15..." (Courtesy of Mr. Dogtag - Al / Poland). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 Schuma Batl. 5 (Lithuanian)"...This ID tag was found in the Kurland area ......The question is about disk... Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 5 (Lit.). I have seen another disk of such 'Round' kind from Schutzm. Batl. 23 (Lett.) As I understand such disks were given in 1941. Who knows why they are so strange? Maybe these disks were produced somewhere in Baltic states? ..." (Courtesy of Victor L. / Latvia ... WAF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 Here is an ID tab from the Estonian Schuma Police Battalion 31 ...(Courtesy of Sturmmann / Estonia - WAF)"...I guess the round ones were produced most probably in Latvia or some other Baltic country - I have a round one coming from Schuma Batl. 19. ..." (Mr. Dogtag / Al)? Isn't it Amazing! Without the 'Magic' of the NET, and Militaria Forums - we would never find these type of materials, or the diversity of World Wide TR Collections! ...Txs, Dave/dblmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Schuma Related Polizei / SS Document - 1943 - #1 I've been able to acquire a Schuma Related Polizei / SS Document - from 1943. The following is the Dealer's description: ".... Document of Fritz Träger, SS-Sturmbannführer Waffen-SS / Major Rural Police / Ukrainian Volunteers Unit - Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146. Large promotion document (4 pages) of the 3rd Reich Interior Ministry, 22.1.43. Signed (original signature - ? "Hopefully" :?: ) by the Reichsführer of the SS, Heinrich Himmler, at his field headquarters (Feldkommandostelle des Reichsführer SS). Träger is promoted from Hauptmann der Schutzpolizei to Major der Schutzpolizei because he was promoted in the Waffen-SS on 21.12.42 to SS-Sturmbannführer. ••• Born 1899. Träger served in WW1 as gunner with the artillery 1917-18. ••• 1924 he started working at the Schutzpolizei, auxiliary police. ••• In 1942 Träger was "Vorbereitungsoffizier bei den Ukrainischen Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146", „Planning Officer" with the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police, notorious for the atrocities against Jews and other civilians, responsible for many mass executions in the Ukraine and elsewhere in Eastern Europe. His units were for example active in Russia (Kursk, Orel and Charkow). ••• According to Waffen-SS personnel lists he was on 1.10.44 still active at the Waffen-SS as Sturmbannführer....." ... Txs, Dave/dblmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 SCHUMA Related Polizei / SS Document - 1943 - #2 Document of Fritz Träger, SS-Sturmbannführer Waffen-SS / Major Rural Police / Ukrainian Volunteers Unit - Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146. (Interesting Signature! Hopefully, it is Legit! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 SCHUMA Related Polizei / SS Document - 1943 -#3 Document of Fritz Träger, SS-Sturmbannführer Waffen-SS / Major Rural Police / Ukrainian Volunteers Unit - Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146. "...Ukrainischen Schumtzmannschafts-batl. 143-146 BdO. Urkraine..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 SCHUMA Related Polizei / SS Document - 1943 -#4 Document of Fritz Träger, SS-Sturmbannführer Waffen-SS / Major Rural Police / Ukrainian Volunteers Unit - Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 SCHUMA Related Polizei / SS Document - 1943 -#5 Document of Fritz Träger, SS-Sturmbannführer Waffen-SS / Major Rural Police / Ukrainian Volunteers Unit - Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 SCHUMA Related Polizei / SS Document - 1943 - #6 Document of Fritz Träger, SS-Sturmbannführer Waffen-SS / Major Rural Police / Ukrainian Volunteers Unit - Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 (edited) Gentlemen, Here is a picture of my Ukrainian SCHUMA tunic. It has some moth damage but considering the rarity it was worth adding to my collection. Sorry that I could not button it up. The thread on one button has already let go so I leave it unbuttoned. Please ignore the badges. They are both copies. They are just there so I can keep track of them. Regards, Gordon Edited January 10, 2010 by Gordon Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 A closer view of the badges on the left arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share Posted January 10, 2010 Gordon - CONGRATS ! You have a totally "Jaw Dropping" Schuma Tunic! It's a WOW.... This is the type of Item which is so very rarely seen - Thanks! I need to study it more & then make some comments. 1) Are there Any Polizei - or - other Type Markings inside of it? 2) Your loose button problem is solved - I have some Original Thread for you. PM / Email me & I'll mail it to you. Your SCHUMA Tunic is way too beautiful, to not be buttoned up! ...... Txs, Dave/dblmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 dbmled, Yes it has Polizei markings in side. Po1941 inside the left side of the tunic and size and maker marks on the right side. Pictures are below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 And the size and makers marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) - Ukrainian SCHUMA Tunic - Gordon, ..... Your Ukrainian SCHUMA Tunic has my head spinning, because it is so very special(!) I've spent a great deal of time admiring it... Schuma tunics came in a variety of configurations - from using recylcled prior Baltic Uniforms - to - Allgemeine SS Uniforms (with a blue cuff & collar added on) - to - the various models of Polizei Uniforms (& probably some other types, which I am forgetting!) Your tunic started off its life as a super SchuPo (Schutzpolizei) tunic, with all of that outstanding Green Piping at the collar, vertical button line & above the 'chocolate' cuffs. It was then shipped OST - where it was issued to the SCHUMA Police, and it was kitted out for an SD / Sicherheitspolizei Schuma man, of the rank of Vizekorporal. The SCHUMA Officers & Men assigned to the SD wore 'Black' - Like their parent SD - using black collar tabs; black shoulder boards & black sleeve patch (with some differences between ranks): • Shoulder Boards - EM/NCO's wore black Shoulder Boards with green piping - & - Officers wore black Shoulder Boards with silver / Aluminum thread piping - both having prominent white Swastikas. • Sleeve Patches - EM/NCO's wore the black sleeve patch, which used grey/off-white thread for the Schuma 'Emblem.' Officers wore a black sleeve patch, which used silver / Aluminum thread for the Schuma 'Emblem.' (I have also seen one SD Schuma Officer sleeve patch which was made using silver bullion.) • Collar Tabs / Patches - were black & could be either an Long parallelogram shape - or - a Short parallelogram shape - more "SS-Like." (This was new information which I learned from reading Dieter Deuster's recently published book "Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen." Your tunic's Collar Tabs / Patches are exquisite & they 'push the envelope' - in that they even have Green Piping around the edges! (Since the SD used green as their unterlage / underlay, then this fits in perfectly.) Everything about your Ukrainian SCHUMA Tunic is just outstanding, IMO(!) CONGRATS.... Below is a partial table from Deuster's book. It gives a very nice overview of the various Collar Tabs & Shoulder Boards - with your SD man being the 2nd from the right (& the 'alternate' form of using the smaller Collar Tabs [such as yours] is shown below.). ...Txs, Dave/dblmed Edited January 13, 2010 by dblmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) Dieter Deuster's book "Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen" - shows the various Schuma: Sleeve Patches - Cap Patches - & - National 'Identity' Kokardes - - - from bottom to top. The SD SCHUMA is again on the Right side of the table. Deuster omits the Schuma Feuerschutzpolizei sleeve patch (but perhaps he ran out of room on the page?) The Ukrainian Kokarde is on the far upper right - & it echos the 'Yellow & Blue' colors of the sleeve patch on Gordon's SCHUMA tunic. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed Edited January 13, 2010 by dblmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Buy the Book as a reference! "Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen" - by Dieter Deuster - if you have a general interest in the Polizei branches (& especially if you are interested in the SCHUMA or the TeNo (Technische Nothilfe.) It really clears up a lot of previously unknown, or confusing, information - & the bibliography leads you to the original source, for a further detailed study of the regulations. I bought my copy on German ebay [ ebay.de ] YES - it is in German, but you don't need to speak German to enjoy the tables (tafels) and photos. I'm slowly translating my copy, [ Babelfish! ] as I find this book to be that worthwhile!... Txs, Dave/dblmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Dave, Thanks for your very interesting response. I have several books on polizei but not this particular one. I'll have to add it to my library. I did a lot of research several years ago on the SCHUMA but that was before the days of the net and there wasn't alot of info avaiable. I have a few polizei uniforms and most of them are post war. I have a magazine that has some very interesting SHUMA period pictures in it but can not find it at the moment. I have been living in Budapest for the last three years and just returned to Canada at the end of August and I am still unpacking my collection and trying to figure out where to put it all. Regards, Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) Schuma - Re-Issued Dutch Helmets – in ESTONIA - 1 My friend Dimas, of Espenlaub Militaria in Estonia, posted this unusual find of SCHUMA troops using Re-Issued Dutch Helmets. http://warrelics.eu/....-items-6747-5/ "…A couple of the helmets found in the positions of Estonian Grz Schtz Regiment- concripts troops, the regiment was assembled from ex police units and the soldiers who were sent back to Estonia from Finnish army in the mid of 1944, after the pact between the Soviet Union and Finland near the end of the war. A little bit about the history of the soldiers who returned from Finnish army duty to Estonia. Most of that people had run away from mobilisation to the Red army and then to the German army in 1940-41 years. Then they were mobilisated to the Finnish army, and only one bataillon of Estonians in Finnish army was sent to the front line. By the ex Estonian admiral Pitka, they were mobilised again to the German forces and were very bad equipped, with Hotchkiss and Degtyarov MG's, MAS-36, Hembrug 1917, Mosin guns etc, and totally worn/damaged uniforms. Most of them tried to run to the home in the first possibility, due to their absolutely pacifistic behaviour. Laterly again they were mobilised by the Soviet troops to fight in the Estonian islands and the Kurland pocket, and again , when they were able, they run to the forests to get away from the war…." Edited July 20, 2010 by dblmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 Schuma - Re-Issued Dutch Helmets – in ESTONIA - 2 More Schuma - Re-Issued Dutch Helmets – from Dimas' collection. [Yes the Baltic countries, are where one would expect to find Schuma items!] Some fantastic finds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 Schuma - Re-Issued DUTCH Helmets – in ESTONIA - 3 Thanks to Dimas (!) Wonderful photos of the Dutch Helmets re-used by the SCHUMA – and found in Estonia! This type of helmet must rate as one of the "Rarest" types by Helmet Collectors! Seems that the SCHUMA was issued whatever type of Uniforms, Equipment & Helmets, which were available. This is the case for the SCHUMA's use of Uniforms of the Baltic Countries / Ukraine – prior national / or Red Army uniforms; then Allgemeine SS Uniforms, (with usually Blue Collars & Cuffs added) - then Polizei Uniforms - etc. As for the SCHUMA Decal, it follows the Sleeve Patches & Side Cap Patches, which are recognized for the SCHUMA. I was unaware of the SCHUMA Decal on ANY type of helmet, prior to your Posting(!) ..... Thanks Dave / dblmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Schuma Tabs Question GREAT THREAD! Hello All!. Would this pair of tabs go together? They came together from the Vet's son. From what I have seen in searching the forum the tabs should be a mirror image of each other, but is this combination possible as well for any of the Schuma groups? Thanks for any help, John T. email: militarybuyer@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblmed Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Schuma Tabs - REVERSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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