Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I see this thread is over a year since last entry so thought I would ask a question here and revive it a bit.

I have an item that uses a one piece center applied over the black enamel.  If you look carefully where I highlighted the points in green, you can see the lion is connected to the red scripted area and the whole center is actually mounted over the black enamel.  The lion has great detail but is quite thin in base material.

Any ideas?

Tim 

ool 1000.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Replies 278
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Buls 1st and 2nd Type Officer and Knight  Classes

GC Civil Dvision  by Josse Allard 1835-1839 Short time of production It is the second Belgian Maker after J.G. Dutalis 1832- 1834  Rare Maker Nearly  rare as Dutalis especially in the high C

Additional pictures The Allard mark on the Star and The GC size compared with a  Commander by Buls. GC by Buls and rare Model of Commander in Gold

Posted Images

Hi Tim,

With so many manufacturers of this Order, there were a great deal of variants in the details. As a very general summation, the one piece ribband-lion centres were normally found on the insignia of the higher classes (GC/GO/Com). Also, the older (some of the earlier Belgian and French manufactured examples) are often seen with this feature but of higher quality workmanship. Photo of my pre 1869, French manufactured Knight class with gold centre below.

Your example would likely be of considerably more recent vintage but quite interesting never the less.

 

pre1869 Knight.JPG

Edited by farmer
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi farmer,

Yes, its hard to compete with the quality of any order manufactured pre-1900.  Still, the quality of the enamel on this one is rather nice with a even translucent green that is much more appealing than some of later manufacture. What was interesting to me is the one piece ribband-lion center.  Prior to this example, I have only seen the lion separately applied to the black centers.

If you look closely at my example above, you can see the upper paw was accidently folded under the lion during the manufacturing/assembly process.  Unfortunately, it cannot be moved at this point as the metal is too thin. 

I purposely did not show the reverse as it has the letter "I" often associated with Wolfers but I honestly don't know if that's accurate information anymore?

Thank you for responding! :cheers:

Tim

Order of Leopold - Military Div - Knights w-palm 1.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 months later...

Tim,

I think your was probably DeGreef's work - I have a couple examples that are identical and are cased (DeGreef firm stamp on the box). Usage of 'I' was not limited only to Wolfers, DeGreef and also other manufacturers used it (Chobillon in France too).

 

Ost-da, in my opinion your Officer was likely made between 1950s and as late as 1970s.

The Knight is much earlier. Long swords appeared officially after 1905 and this crown style was only commonly used by a couple of manufacturers. I would date your piece anytime between early WW1 and WW2.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, farmer said:

Ost-da, in my opinion your Officer was likely made between 1950s and as late as 1970s

Thank you so much! 
The Roman one, may be on the reverse of the order of this period?

02.png

Edited by ost-da
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, farmer said:

 

The Knight is much earlier. Long swords appeared officially after 1905 and this crown style was only commonly used by a couple of manufacturers. I would date your piece anytime between early WW1 and WW2.

Unless that crown is not 1880?

02.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

This crown 'type' was never linked to a particular vintage. It appeared in 1981 Borne's Belgian reference book but without much credence in regard to the years used (just a common belief as was circulated at the time of writing).  I own examples with such crown used with the post-1951 centres. In reality, Borne's so called "elargi, aplati,classique" crowns are just variants of a similar crown - all produced from late 1880s and into 1960s by at least 6 manufacturers.
 Get yourself a copy of Antti Ruokonen's book (Orders of Belgium), there is an extensive reference to crowns used with this order. You have to also consider other aspects of the insignia, manufacturers and a host of other features before one can make a reasonable educated statement regarding the period of usage. This topic is very deep, I am happy to give you my opinion (having researched and collected this Order for nearly 35 years and having several hundred examples in my collection).

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, farmer said:

This crown 'type' was never linked to a particular vintage. It appeared in 1981 Borne's Belgian reference book but without much credence in regard to the years used (just a common belief as was circulated at the time of writing).  I own examples with such crown used with the post-1951 centres. In reality, Borne's so called "elargi, aplati,classique" crowns are just variants of a similar crown - all produced from late 1880s and into 1960s by at least 6 manufacturers.
 Get yourself a copy of Antti Ruokonen's book (Orders of Belgium), there is an extensive reference to crowns used with this order. You have to also consider other aspects of the insignia, manufacturers and a host of other features before one can make a reasonable educated statement regarding the period of usage. This topic is very deep, I am happy to give you my opinion (having researched and collected this Order for nearly 35 years and having several hundred examples in my collection).

Thank you, you helped me a lot. Will share their knowledge with colleagues on the hobby in their country.
I asked you about the Roman one the orders with the motto in both languages. Could it be? I thought a Roman only one on order to WW2.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sure I follow: "I asked you about the Roman one the orders with the motto in both languages. Could it be? I thought a Roman only one on order to WW2. "

If you mean the French only inscriptions vs French and Flemish - dual languages were used after 1951 statutes revision.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, farmer said:

If you mean the French only inscriptions vs French and Flemish - dual languages were used after 1951 statutes revision

My question. Number one may be on the reverse side of the order after 1951?

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ost-da said:

My question. Number one may be on the reverse side of the order after 1951?

Yes.

3 hours ago, Jef said:

Hello Gents,

Wondering if anyone has a spare lion for sale. Would like to restore this beauty

kind regards, Jef

P1040993.JPG

P1040997.JPG

Jef,

You need a Heremans's lion. Sending you a pm.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...
On 13-1-2016 at 23:30, farmer said:

The Knight is much earlier. Long swords appeared officially after 1905 and this crown style was only commonly used by a couple of manufacturers.

Hi Farmer,

Thanks for sharing all your knowledge with us. I didn't knew that about the longer swords, that they are used (officially) since 1905. Where did you find that information? I looked in some of the books I posses but I can't find it anywhere. Same at the internet (except in this topic).

Vincent

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

Hi I just added a very interesting old model of the Order of Leopold -Officer Class in Gold

It has the crown of an early Charles J. Buls with typical Buls mark on the ribbon ring however the body including the central medallions are from J.G. Dutalis

The cross has 2 marks one is a round one not known to me the other looks like French  eagle head or Belgium horse head The weight and the size are the same as Dutalis Orders 16 Grams and 39 mm wide

Here is the new Order  together with an early Knight by Charles J. Buls to compare

 

013.JPG

015.JPG

011.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 11 months later...

Ending with Buls in 2016 and reviving this topic with him (I hope) :)

I bought this knight in the Order of Leopold and believes it it from Ch. Buls (ca. 1845 - 1880s). Unfortunatly I can't decipher the silvermark.

I checked it with A. Ruokonen's book "Spirit of the lion" and it seems to match, at least to me, with Charles Buls.

I hope someone can verify this or disprove this.

th_551264877_IMG_2303_122_901lo.JPG

th_551267623_IMG_2304_122_134lo.JPG

th_551271231_IMG_2305_122_150lo.JPG


th_551274818_IMG_2306_122_514lo.JPG

th_551278391_IMG_2307_122_153lo.JPG

th_551281965_IMG_2309_122_534lo.JPG

     

Kind Regards,

Vincent

Edited by VC89
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Hi Vincent

It is  the late second type of C. Buls

If you look my post from 7th of August you can see the 1st type on the left from the Commander Cross  and the 2nd type on the right The Commander Crosses and the Grand Cordon Crosses by Buls always came with the 1st type crown as seen on the picture

Sometime they have marks, however many times they are not marked

 

Best

 

Graf

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

VC,

Just saw your post. I think I can make out the 'sword' silver hallmark on the crown and another one punched to the wreath ties, this assures your cross was manufactured (but not necessarily awarded) prior to 1869.

Eyelet mark appears to be partial Buls's mark. Nice cross, too bad the lion is somewhat fatigued.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Blog Comments

    • Sounds great other than the Orange & Mango squash only because I prefer cran-pomegranate juice.
    • "(...) disgusting herbal concoction (...)" I took note of this description, to enrich my otherwise limited, English "Wortschatz"...
    • At work the standard indian tea such as PG tips is referred to as chimp tea. This goes back to the days when we had a Spanish girl working for us whose command of the English language was extremely limited. One lunch she said she was going to the shop could she get anything. I asked if she could get a pack of tea bags. She returned with some disgusting herbal concoction. I tried to explain what was required but without success. I then remembered PG tips had a picture of a chimpanzee on the packe
    • When I read Lapsang Souchong i decided to post something about these Tea . Many years ago I dont  know about Lapsang until I read James Michener book Centennial and the description of the savour of the Lapasang as a mix of tar and salt & smoked made me proof . It was exact ! and i liked it since then .
    • I have been known to drink Lapsang Souchong and Tea, Earl Grey, Hot... both "without pollutants". I normally have one mug of coffee in the morning, then spend the rest of the day drinking Orange & Mango squash (by the pint). Then evening comes and it's a pint, followed by red wine with dinner and sometimes a drop of Laphroaig afterwards.
×
×
  • Create New...