Austria-Hungary The Honved 2nd Lieutenant Who Had Everything--But Who's Count-ing?

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, ALMOST everything.

For the life of me, I can't read what his faded out pencilled name on back is: Graf.... dek. Original color, B&W, tinted for contrast. Auuugh.

He's a freakin' SECOND LIEUTENANT... with

Prussian Crown Order 2nd Class, Spanish Isabella the Catholic-Commander 1st, Swedish Vasa-Commander 1st, Portugese Christ-Commander 1st, some other Commander grade Order

Leopold Order-Knight (usually COLONELS !!!), Iron Crown-Knight, probably (?) 1873 War Medal... and 4 strange funny foreign Orders and 2 ditto medals.

Circa 1880? Cabinet photo by Carl Heitel, Wien, III. Hauptstrasse 21. No prizes on back, no phone number.

HELP !!!!!!!!

[Bernhard H.Holst]

hello Rick:

Here is my SWAG: Graf Haydek or Hayduk ( the latter name rings a very faint bell in my mind!)

Bernhard H. Holst

[Guest Rick Research]

I couldn't find him under those-- but am apparently missing Honved lists for THEIR entirely separate Lists!

[Glenn J]

Rick,

I don't believe this guy is an Honv?d Hussar Officer; wrong type of chest braiding. Hussars wore horizontal loops after 1868 in both the common army and the Honv?d. I tend to think he may well be a member of the Royal Hungarian Lifeguard with an incorrectly tailored collar!! Probably a Major and more likely a Generalmajor! That looks like an 1873 War Service Medal next to the Iron Crown so dating it after then.

Regards

Glenn

[Guest Rick Research]

No General braid on the collar, while freakish (to me anyway ) would certainly explain all that grade of bling.

Now if only his scribbled name could be read... for Oh Have I Ku.k. References Now-- random, but 1802 (yassss, 1802--skips to 1831 for a listing of any officer decorated by anybody before that, and then mid 1850s) to 1917. The major Gapng Hole appears to be ZERO on the separate Hungarian army. :banger:

[Great Dane]

There was a "Graf Dominik Hardegg - Austr.-Hung. geheimerat" who received the Swedish Order of Wasa (Commander 1. class) on 19. September 1890.

Could it be him?

/Mike

[Guest Rick Research]

No-- this is a military uniform. See the first guy in the "Obscure Argonauts" thread for bureaucratic fancy dress.

This one is tough to date-- 1873 War Medal (so 1874 at earliest) and no December 1898 jubilee medal. 1874 to 1898 is a huge amount of space for an illegible name. My references are all Austrian and no Hungarian.....

[Ulsterman]

Could he be a dR? Is that a danish medal at the end?

:speechless1:

[Great Dane]

The list of foreign recipients of the Swedish Order of Wasa in the Swedish State- and Court handbooks is fairly short (at least for Commanders and higher classes).

In the 1900 edition, "Graf Dominik Hardegg" is the only that comes even close to the scribbled name (checked GCs, Commanders 1.class and Commanders).

In the 1882 edition noone comes close to the name.

Provided - of course - that the scribbled name has anything to do with the man on the photo...

Strange...

Ulsterman, I can't really see the medal at the end, so I can't tell.

/Mike

[Yankee]

Anyone know what lives between the St.Anne & Leopold?

[Guest Rick Research]

Order of the Iron Crown and what must be the generic War Medal of 1873. Notice that the SECOND foreign Order (one of the defunct Italian states?) has a Fleue-de0Lys broken off its left upper cross arms. :rolleyes:

[Naxos]

Can you post a larger scan (more pixels) of the name, I think it's .....

Edited May 3, 2009 by Naxos

[Guest Rick Research]

That won't help, because it has actually been ERASED. So what there is above is practically forensic reconstruction. I shall pass over the blood curdling alchemy that produced anything at all. Let's just say that We at The Holy Office know more than can safely be shared.... :rolleyes:

[Yankee]

Order of the Iron Crown and what must be the generic War Medal of 1873. Notice that the SECOND foreign Order (one of the defunct Italian states?) has a Fleue-de0Lys broken off its left upper cross arms.

Hi Rick

Noticed that too, might be lions however. I don't think it is any of the Italian States, due to the use of a wreath above the cross instead of the usual crown. I'm thinking the third from right just might be the Order of the Redeemer from the Duchy of Mantua. If that is so truely an amazing bar.

[Yankee]

It has to be The Spainish Order of Charles lll, so you are right it would be the "Fleur De Lys" Strange the officer had not want to fix the badge

Sincerely

Yankee

[Naxos]

I think it reads: Graf J Hadik

could it be futaki gr?f Hadik J?nos the man who served as prime minister of Hungary for almost three days at the end of World War I ?

born: 23 November 1863 Died: 10 December 1933

I believe he served from 1884 as an Officer in a Husaren Regiment

Edited May 3, 2009 by Naxos

[hunyadi]

According to the Hungarian Wikipedia it states :

K?z?piskolai tanulm?nyainak Kass?n t?rt?nt elv?gz?se ut?n a b?cs?jhelyi Theresianum Katonai Akad?mi?n v?gzett, (trained at the military accademy) majd 1884-ben husz?rhadnagyk?nt bel?pett az osztr?k-magyar k?z?s hadseregbe ?s B?csk?ba ker?lt a 10-es husz?rokhoz (then in 1884 entered the 10th Hussars). Katonai p?ly?j?t azonban m?r kor?n felcser?lte a politikaival. (then he took a political route in his life) 1893-ban főhadnagyi rendfokozatban szolg?laton k?v?l helyeztette mag?t. (then by 1893 he was a 2nd Lt.) M?g abban az ?vben feles?g?l vette Zichy Alexandra gr?fnőt, akitől n?gy gyermeke sz?letett: (then he got married and had three children listed after this) Am?lia (1894-1967), Margit (1899-1978), Antal (1902-1935) ?s B?la (1915-1971); lesz?rmazottai t?bbnyire az Amerikai Egyes?lt ?llamokban ?lnek.

Hadik J?nos photo in latter life - I think the eyes give confirmation...

Edited May 3, 2009 by hunyadi

[Great Dane]

Hmmm... I'm not really convinced...

The letter before the 'd' in the last name definitely looks like an 'r' (same 'r' as in 'Graf') - especially on the grayscale picture.

I know there can be a difference in spelling, but still...?

BTW, the third decoration from the end looks like the Italian Order of the Crown. He sure was around...

/Mike

[Guest Rick Research]

Hmmm. COULD be-- the extra flourish in Teutonic "a" in Graf might match that in the last name.

But in the vast array of AUSTRO-Hungarian references I've inherited in the rest of Eric Ludvigsen's library, there's nothing HUNGARIAN. I can't find anything that could confirm the weird awards.

I was amazed, on getting all these, to see that K.u.k. Army Rank Lists do not show ANY foreign awards... which are exactly what would pick people out of the same old-same old Hapsburg stuff.

[kimj]

I doubt this is Hadik mainly because he's not listed in the Swedish list of foreign commanders of the Wasa order in the 1886, 1902 or 1919 lists. If you could place the photo in time I could make a list of the Austrian-Hungarian knight commander 2nd class recipients of the Wasa. But without a good guess what year...

/Kim

[Great Dane]

Kim,

That was also my approach. I only have the Swedish S&C handbooks from 1882 and 1900, but the only Austr-Hung. recipients listed under Wasa Commander 1. class are:

1882:

- Baron Czoernig von Czernhausen

- Alexander Nadosy von Nadas

- Ignatius Carl von Schaeffer

- Baron Strohbach

- Count Zichy

- Peter von Tunner

- Count Ervin Fredrik Carl von Schoenborn-Buchheim

- Joseph Arenstein

- Carl von Offermann

- Emerick von Nemeth

- Fredrik von Reitz

- Joseph Hyrtl

1900:

- Count Zichy

- Count Ervin Fredrik Carl von Schoenborn-Buchheim

- Emerich von Nemeth

- Freiherr Hermann von Uslar-Gleichen

- Heinrich Claudius Alexander von Klaudy

- Count Dominik Hardegg

- Adolph von Plason

So maybe he received the Order of Wasa after 1900? In that case the photo is also after 1900... is that likely?

/Mike

[Naxos]

The writing could read Hyrtl (spelled wrong) Was he a Husar?

No - not him - too old - Born in 1810

Edited May 3, 2009 by Naxos

[Guest Rick Research]

Zichy's first name was Geza. His 1905 entry in the FJO-holders' "Who's Who" displeasingly omits all but his two top orders.

About the only thing that does seem clear is that the Mystery Man was (at least per scribble) a Graf Something-ending-in-"dek." But with a 20 year time span and no date.... :banger:

[Great Dane]

Rick, you were quick to dismiss Dominik Hardegg...

I don't know how common the Hardegg name is/was, but there seems to be some hussars among them.

Is it possible that he was a military man and then moved into state affairs or is that totally unlikely?

I guess the Swedish S&C handbooks did the same as the Danish ditto in that period, which is listing the recipient with the updated rank/occupation if possible?

/Mike

[Guest Rick Research]

No, but I can't FIND him in anything I have (boxes and boxes, Oh My) to confirm OR deny. The only two "Who's Who?" types of volumes I have are from 1876... and 1905. And he falls right plunk in the middle, probably.

There is also the uniform clue that this was a Hungarian rather than an Austrian "German."

BTW, why did Austria-Hungary have such appallingly bad quality paper? Yikes! :banger: