Pilot's Badge Award Date

[Guest Darren]

Hello,

I have always believed that a German pilot must first gain experience in air combat before he would be awarded his pilot's badge. With this in mind, would the date of the award be back-dated to reflect the day the pilot first qualified at flight school? The reason I ask is because I know of an instance where a pilot graduated fight school, and the award date for his badge coincided with his class completion date.

regards,

Darren

[Stogieman]

Hi Darren, the usual scenario was one graduated from the school, accumulated hours/flights and was then awarded the PB/OB, etc. Unfortunately, after all these years I cannot point to any one instance of a written qualification and/or statutes for Imperial Flight Badges. I suspect that somewhere, buried in a General Orders type document the answer may lie.

Edited November 27, 2005 by stogieman

[Rendsburg]

Hi Darren,

Stogieman is right, here's the pilot badge award of my great uncle Carl Holler.

Otto

[Guest Darren]

Hi Guys,

So, are we still trying to determine if the award was back-dated or not? I have the Rangliste of the pilot, in which his dates for the school were 3.5.15 - 20.11.15 (probably includes some leave time), but his award date for the badge is 11.9.15. Could it be that at this stage in the war, pilot's were awarded their badges right out of flight school?

(p.s., he was Bavarian!)

Nice document by the way!

regards,

Darren

[VtwinVince]

My uncle graduated from the Rumpler Schule in early 1917, and flew combat for almost a year before finally receiving his Pilot Badge.

[Guest Darren]

Hi,

So it is quite possible, that due to fact that it was relatively early in the war (Summer 1915), a pilot could be awarded his badge upon graduation from flight school. Later on it looks like the custom of combat fights as a requirement took effect.

I am sure that this particular pilot received his badge upon completion of school, as he sent in a request for a replacement badge, to take the place of the one he lost shortly after leaving school!!

regards,

Darren

[Stogieman]

Hi Darren, I don't think anyone can answer this question with any real degree of certainty... but I will say I suspect a Typo... if he was in school until November 20 after receiving his PB on September 11 ??? Why would he have been kept in the school two months after awarding of the badge. What were the postings prior to the school?

As an example (Prussian) Voss was teaching flying and still did not have a PB. I've only had one complete Bavarian flying document group and will need some time to comb through old fotos and check for details.

[Guest Darren]

Hi stogieman,

I am as perplexed as you are. After looking into it, I don't believe that he was in school as late as November 20. This is actually the date he was transferred to Armee Flugpark 6. He must have had leave sometime between the award of his pilot's badge (September 11th), and his return (for some reason) to the FEA on October 24th of the year. He attended the Milit?rfliegerschule from 28.5. - 8.7.15 , and he flew his first cross-country fight on 9.8.15. I do not have anymore details of his training. I only have his leave dates from 1916 and later.

German war records (Kriegs-Rangliste) of soldiers normally do not include leave dates or list the last day of an assignment. Only the transfer dates were recorded. This leaves some things open to speculation. I would believe that the award of his pilot's badge was back-dated, if it were not for the letter dated November 8th, 1915, where he stated that he lost his badge on the 3rd of November and needed a replacement (it became loose and apparently fell off his jacket).

I would like a definitive answer as well, but the circumstances I describe seem to go against modern day wisdom on the subject. What are your thoughts?

regards,

Darren

[Stogieman]

hmmmmmm. Interesting tidbit with the replacement request. I wonder if a second document was issued to go with the second badge? Still digging for pix.

[Stogieman]

Hi Darren, other than being able to tell he was awarded his badge on 10.4.1915, I can't glean much from my archive photos. My best guess is that the Bavarians seem to have been awarded the badge upon graduation. This group had a copy of his flight recorder for the solo....... it was interesting as he was actually given different "licenses" to fly different planes! Just for giggles, here he is after winning his EK2

[Stogieman]

This group was one of my earliest acquisitions and is long gone. If I had realized the significance of having this paperwork back then I never would have let it out of my sight!

[Guest Darren]

Hi stogieman,

Thanks for your expert analysis. Maybe the Bavarians did do things differently; it wouldn't be the first time! Nice photo by the way - very stoic.

Thanks for baring with me on this one. These kind of things can most certainly cause a huge headache

regards,

Darren

Edited November 30, 2005 by Darren

[Stogieman]

Hi Darren, I would not ever classify myself as an "expert" on anything (maybe other than being annoying)..... I've had some experience with these awards, that's all. Right now I am still pounding my head against the monitor every time I think about this group, the crappy archive photos and all the answers that were probably here but are now long gone. I will sift my records and try and find the buyer to see if I can get copies of the documents via eMail.