Some Unidentified Sun Helmet Insignia.

[leigh kitchen]

From photographs in my collection.

Any ideas anybody?

Circa WWI, 1908 web belt, 3 x Overseas Servive Chevrons, 2 x Wound Stripes, a medal ribbon, sergeants chevrons.

Photographer "London Studio", Nubha Pagar St. 10.

Edited May 26, 2009 by leigh kitchen

[leigh kitchen]

A Royal Artillery type field gun in the centre? A horse running right? A fox running right (East Riding Yeomanry?)

If I can get the maginification, the resolution, the contrast, the colour saturation just right........

That little violet ink mark in the centre of the badge is darned near invisble to the naked eye.

Photographer "R. L. Knight, Barnstaple".

A possible identification on this one:

William1

"......I think the flash in post 2 is 1/4th Devons - Devonshire over 1/4 over Regiment, in green cloth on khaki drill. I once owned an example of this flash. The Barnstaple photographer adds weight to this."

Edited February 25, 2010 by leigh kitchen

[leigh kitchen]

A vertical rectngle, divided n two, vertically, bearing the numeral "5", so presumably a 5th Battalion of the regiment concerned.

Again, wearing an '08 web belt. Perhaps newly issued uniform prior to going overseas, as could be post no. 2, although neither man shows baling creases in his uniform.

Photographer "Edwarde, Photographer, 16 St. Mary's Rd., Southampton.

[Graham Stewart]

Bottom is 2/5th Hampshire's. White numeral on amber and black patch.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Graham Stewart

[leigh kitchen]

Thank you, I'll do my usual & say that's ringng bells from somewhere, I thought I'd worked out Hampshires for one of my not knowns but could'nt remember which - you've inspired me to search a few Mike Chappell books - "Field Service Head Dress 1902 to the Present Day", page 13, shown worn by a "bugler" of 2/5th Hampshires, India, 1915.

And page 15, shows the patch as a colour illustration, along with theose of the 2/4th & the 9th Battalions, thanks.

I thought you'd turn up something Graham, along with Stuart.

Edited May 26, 2009 by leigh kitchen

[leigh kitchen]

A group with an armoured car.

Some kind of metal badge on the front of one helmet? Or a star shaped badge, similar to the ASC?

The man on the right shows a lozenge patch to the left side of the helmet.

[leigh kitchen]

These two photos came together, no identifying insignia on the helmets of the group by the armoured car.

The possibilty of dark lozenges on the sides of the helmets in the following 3 images, which are all of one photo showing a funeral procession.

The red & blue lozenge patch of the Royal Artillery in one of its symbol, letter & numeral combinations?

Some numerals are visible on the rear of the gun tractor, there's posssibly lettering or numbering along the side of it.

Written on the back of that second photo, the gun tractor one, is "Raymak 1927".

[leigh kitchen]

There's no way of not commenting on this man's resemblance to Gunner 'Lofty' Sugden, played by the late Don Estelle in "It An't Half Hot Mum".

I'm doing it because somebody else is bound to, & from affection rather than disrespect, here's a link to a clip featuring Gunner Sugden:

http://www.comedy.org.uk/guide/tv/it_aint_...hot_mum/videos/

A light Infantryman by the helmet insignia & the curved shoulder title, rather than Rifle Brigade or Kings Royal Rifle Corps, but which Light Infantry regiment?

The Kings Own Yorkshire Light infantry would have used the coiled bugle rather than stringed bugle I would think.

If it were a cap badge, free from crown, scroll or lettering etc of the other Light Infantry regiments such as the Durham Light Infantry or The King's Own Shropshire Light Infantry, the horn as depicted as it is would be that of The Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry.

No details of name or unit visible on the kit bag unfortunately, no tabs on the hose tops, somebody remind me of the type of rifle please - a P17?

[Graham Stewart]

Looks like an "Obly-Gobly" Territorial going off his badge & rifle. The OBLI had a number of battalions which would have worn the Wolsley, but the battalion I'm going for is 1st Garrison Bn, OBLI formed Portland, Sept 1915 and in India by Feb 1916. All of the other OBLI Bn's serving in hot climates would have used the standard pattern SMLE.

One thing I am sure about and that is he ain't Durhams or KOYLI.

[Graham Stewart]

The boys with the armoured car are post 1920's/1930's, but really can't give you anymore than that. Had it been Iraq it would have been "Crabs"(RAF), who seemingly ran the country and had Armoured Car Squadrons running all over the shop. Again though I've handled a copy of their flash and it's based upon RAF stablebelt colours.

[leigh kitchen]

Thank you - I'd never have worked around to working out the Ox & Bucks LI battalion.

[jagwca]

Leigh in post #6 the badge does seem to be RAF but the armoured car is not a Rolls Royce which the RAF Armoured Car Companies were euipped but an educated guess because of the dome turret with twin vickers would be a Crossley.A few were used for airfield defence in Irak so #1 RAF Armoured Car Company.

The airmens dress would indicate around 1937 or later before that they wore boots and puttees rather than knee stockings and low quarter shoes.

John

[Stuart Bates]

I agree with Graham that the first one is the Hampshire Regiment although the only evidence I have is that the flash was a rectangular 2" x 3" of equal stripes yellow and black. However, as we know, flashes differed from battalion to battalion and over time.

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

Don't know why I am posting this as Graham is right again - Ox and Bucks L.I.

Stuart

Edited May 27, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[leigh kitchen]

Leigh in post #6 the badge does seem to be RAF but the armoured car is not a Rolls Royce which the RAF Armoured Car Companies were euipped but an educated guess because of the dome turret with twin vickers would be a Crossley.A few were used for airfield defence in Irak so #1 RAF Armoured Car Company.

The airmens dress would indicate around 1937 or later before that they wore boots and puttees rather than knee stockings and low quarter shoes.

John

Thanks, I thought thet there'd be a clue in the type of vehicle, but did'nt know what the vehicle was.

[leigh kitchen]

I agree with Graham that the first one is the Hampshire Regiment although the only evidence I have is that the flash was a rectangular 2" x 3" of equal stripes yellow and black. However, as we know, flashes differed from battalion to battalion and over time.

Stuart

Stuart, here are the photo & the representation of the patch from the Mike Chappell book I mentioned. Chappell is an ex-WOI who served in the Hampshires (& in the Glosters), he'd perhaps have a particular interest in & knowledge of the Hampshires insignia.

He ststes that these three were worn in India during WWI, 2/4th Bn, 1/9th (Cyclist) Bn & 2/5th Bn.

The fellow with the spine pad is from "Tropical Uniforms" in the same series of books, & shows the patch of the 1/4th Hampshires, Mesopotamia, 1915.

Edited June 3, 2009 by leigh kitchen

[leigh kitchen]

On the reverse is written "Picnicers to Somaliland 1895.

A lot of fighting, a lot of exploration going on around there at that time, so I'm not speculating on the purpose of the "picnic".

The army officer sitting in the centre of the group wears a sphinx collar badge, I have'nt sat down with a magnifier to check the sex etc of the sphinx in order to try to pinpoint a regiment from it, or to have a good look at the other insignia.

The armband worn by the officer standing appears to have a central horizontal stripe? Red on black?

The pugaree of the figure seated right?

[Stuart Bates]

Leigh,

I have Mike Chappell's book but after checking John Mollo did not think it worthwhile to go any further, especially as I was fighting my ISP because my email/webmail has been out of commission since yesterday morning. My ISP is updating their webmail and doing it online and it doesn't work! Unbelievable!

For some reason large attachments kill my email through Outlook Express so I tried Thunderbird with the same results. Anyway this is not a technical forum.

Stuart

Edited May 27, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[jagwca]

Leigh straying off subject alittle but several sun helmets and flashes to keep you busy.

Here is a Crossley armoured car in India no date but commenced production early 1920's this appears to be an early one.

John

Edited May 28, 2009 by jagwca

[coldstream]

Leigh, this may be way off the mark but could the sun helmet you refer to in post 17 the picnicers have a piece of puggaree material from the turban of a member of Skinners Horse on it? Difficult to identify colours but the general stripe pattern appears to be the same.

[Stuart Bates]

I think Coldstream may be right about the puggaree being material from a turban but I can only present a couple of images of Skinner's Horse for comparison

[Stuart Bates]

Here is the left hand figure - 1st Duke of York's Own Lancers (Skinner's Horse) - Hindustani Musalman

[Stuart Bates]

The right hand figure is of the 3rd Skinner's Horse - Musalman Rajput

[leigh kitchen]

Thanks, I knew the stripe pattern reminded me of something but just had'nt a clue what it reminded me of - I'd never have made the connection with the turbans.

[leigh kitchen]

Leigh straying off subject alittle but several sun helmets and flashes to keep you busy.

Here is a Crossley armoured car in India no date but commenced production early 1920's this appears to be an early one.

John

Interesting photo, any chance of a larger image?