A Waterloo Colour Serjeant's Group Of Four

[Guest Rick Research]

Another Epsonization project as the Traveling Museum passed through.

Original ribbons too.

1) Guelphic Medal: Named to Feldwebel Carl Dieck von der J?ger Garde

2) British Waterloo Medal: Named to Colour Serjeant Charles Dieck 1st Light Battalion King's German Legion

3) British General Service Medal: named to Serjeant Charles Dieck 1st Light Battalion KGL with bars

Albuhera (16 May 1811: 2,413 bars of which 111 to Dieck's battalion)

Salamanca (22 July 1812: 6,791/108)

Vittoria (21 June 1813: 10,244/124)

St. Sebastian (17 July-8 September 1813: 2,619/113)

Nivelle (10 November 1813: 5,184/114)

Nive (9-13 December 1813: 4,680/116)

4) Hanoverian Medal (1841) for King's German Legion Volunteers 1803-1814 (unnamed)

More on the Guelphic Medal below

[Guest Rick Research]

Carl Dieck's Guelphic Medal was awarded in 1818 for bravery at Bayonne on 28 February 1814 as a Serjeant in the 1st Light Battalion, KGL.

In 1981 Andreas Thies published the work of the late Wilhelm Hapke as "Orden und Ehrenzeichen des K?nigreich Hannover," which counted 585 Guelphic Medals awarded.

503 were gazetted as members of the King's German Legion

82 were gazetted as members of the Hanoverian Army

I haven't seen those Rolls, but from this distinction, I am assuming (?) that Dieck--though he EARNED the Medal in the KGL, was "counted" as a member of the Hanoverian army.

From the ribbons, Dieck wore his 1841 Volunteers Medal back to front. The 1813-only volunteers medal with a similar cross would have been a logical reason to show the side which clearly differentiated between the two.

[Ulsterman]

I am stunned.

That is THE best (even better than the Bavarian group here last year) Napoleonic group I have ever seen.

[Guest Rick Research]

I've just found the 1974 reprint of August Finkam's pamphlet listing his former collection, which was acquired by the city of Hannover before publication of that in 1901.

The Guelphic Medal came with an annual pension of 27 Thalers, 12 Gr?schen and 5 Pfennigs-- a VERY nice permanent and substantive recognition of the deeds for which a "piece of metal" was earned.

He reported that out of 30,000 KGL volunteers-- subject to summary execution by the French as deserters from the ephemeral puppet Kingdom of Westphalia-- 6,000 were killed or died in English service.

20%.

With the constant casualties, there were actually 7,000 KGL members at the time of Waterloo.

This rather puts current civic fortitude in perspective.

Herr Finkam reported a TOTAL of

1,230 General Service Medals awarded to survivors of the King's German Legion--

of which 216 had 6 bars. :beer:

[Naxos]

An incredible epsonized group!

[Ulsterman]

I can not find Dieck's award cite, but his comrades in the 1st light Btn. ALL earned their medals the HARD way. The 1st light bttn. was part of the garrison of LaHaye Sainte-the farm that eventually was taken at bayonet and cannon-muzzle point later in the afternoon of the 18th. The bttn. took @ 50% casualties (or more depends on how you look at the returns).

The color sergeants ranked between Sergeants and Sergeant Majors and were tough, well-respected men. The Colors were a magnet for hostile and dangerous activity (bullet, cannon-shot,someone trying to eviscerate you with a 5 foot heavy saber from atop a half-ton excited warhorse) and not many Color Sergeants lived long lives.

The 1st light's Colors were almost certainly sent back up the ridge sometime during the battle and the 8th battalions' colors were actually captured by the french heavy cavalry (Curassiers) after the battalion was ordered down the slope by the Prince of Orange (in open line no less) to relieve LaHaye Sainte.

[Lollies]

Hi,

I'm new to researching and my boss has a similar collection, which I am attempting gather further provenance.

The collection comprises of an M.G.S - Sahagun & Benevente, Guelphic Medal for Bravery, Waterloo Medal and Hanoverian Medal for Volunteers of K.G.L. This group was awarded to a Wilhelm Francis (also known as William Francis on medal rolls) of the 3rd Hussars, K.G.L.

Could someone point me in the right direction for copies of medal roll for the Guelphic & Hanoverian Medals please??

Many thanks in advance

[Paul_1957]

Hi,

I'm new to researching and my boss has a similar collection, which I am attempting gather further provenance.

The collection comprises of an M.G.S - Sahagun & Benevente, Guelphic Medal for Bravery, Waterloo Medal and Hanoverian Medal for Volunteers of K.G.L. This group was awarded to a Wilhelm Francis (also known as William Francis on medal rolls) of the 3rd Hussars, K.G.L.

Could someone point me in the right direction for copies of medal roll for the Guelphic & Hanoverian Medals please??

Many thanks in advance

Hello,

That medal group was sold in London in 2003 and again as recently as September of this year by a major auction house known as Dix, Noonan and Web. You can find some of the provenance information that you are looking for on that company's website. Go to www.dnw.co.uk and click on the medal catalogue image on the right hand side of their home page. Click on the search catalogues icon and then just type in the name William Francis in the description box and then click on the search button. Two of the returned records will be for that medal group. Clicking onto the description of the medals will then open up a page describing the group and giving the citation for the Guelphic medal.

The original archive containing the citations for the Guelphic medals no longer exists; it was destroyed in World War Two. I am not aware of any roll existing for the medal for volunteers either - a roll might exist in Germany but I have never heard that one does.

Paul

Edited November 10, 2012 by Paul_1957

[azyeoman]

I am stunned.

That is THE best (even better than the Bavarian group here last year) Napoleonic group I have ever seen.

It's the best I've ever seen too. Wow... :love:

[Ulsterman]

According to John Franklin there are extensive (and underutilized) Hanoverian records in the state archives...this includes muster rolls, pay rolls and various legal proceedings and day books. He has been publishing newly rediscovered accounts of the Waterloo campaign.

The Guelphic medals were listed in the Staatskalnder and that used to be on-line at google books.

[Guest Rick Research]

200th anniversary of Vittoria

21 June 1813-2013

[Guest Rick Research]

200th anniversary of the beginning of the siege of St. Sebastian 17 July 1813-2013

[Schwyz]

How nice to see an old friend – and still with the original ribbons!

I once owned the Carl Dieck group, 25+ years ago. The disposal of my KGL collection at auction (Christie's) was, at the time the most sensible thing to do (so I thought) and I did VERY well. I had come to the conclusion at that time, with the increasing prices for KGL material, that I would no longer be able to afford further purchases. To this day I look back on my decision with regret – I wish I had just put the entire collection in my SDB and left it there. Chances are that I would have still continued to add to a collection that is fondly remembered above all others.

This group alone made £3740. and I shudder to think of what it would fetch today – as a retiree I definitely wouldn't be able to justify the expense now!

A couple of comments –

— the Hannoverian (KGL) Medal originally came to me (and left) with the ribbon the correct way – it has been changed around perhaps by someone who prefers it this way, perhaps because of the specific KGL inscription on the reverse, or by someone who does not realize the correct method of wear – happily, the ribbon can easily be re-positioned.

— the Guelphic Medal named to Dieck was presented to him while he was in the Jaeger Garde battalion. After Napoleon's first defeat in 1814, many Senior NCOs were sent back to Hannover to help train the re-constituted Hannoverian army – these NCO's remained in Hannoverian service and did not return to the KGL for the final campaign when Napoleon escaped – Dieck could have been one of these men.

If not, then after Napoleon's final defeat at Waterloo, the KGL were Stuck off Strength (SOS) of the British Army and the battalions returned to Hannover, many men enlisting in Hannoverian service.

Given that his award was presented in 1818, this explains the naming on this medal.

Unfortunately, the Citation for Dieck's award which would have specifically mentioned his deed(s) has not survived – very few have. If memory serves, the only Citations to have survived are the 83 mentioned in Beamish's two volume 1832-37 (?) history of the KGL, probably the rarest Napoleonic British regimental history – now happily reprinted and available.

Further information may be available from The Guelphic Archives in Hannover, but access to the Archives was tightly controlled (1980s) and might still be only available to scholarly researchers (i.e. not collectors).

Don't quote me on this because it has been too many years since I have been in Hannover.

Another interesting museum well worth a visit is The Bomann Museum in Celle, a few km north of Hannover. The museum has many KGL items, but the main displays are MANY original uniforms of the different battalions which were preserved by Dr. Bomann back in the 1840s and 50s (if memory serves, again). When I visited back in the late 1980s it was very overwhelming.

Cheers,

Gar

[Guest Rick Research]

Isn't it nice to know that these things "live on" and--God willing--will still be "around" in another 150 years.

I've noted a shocking dearth of survivals--the same medals keep turning up over and over--traceable in some cases back to German collections in the 1870s. Obviously some must still be in family hands, but it seems to me a survival rate of about 1:4 seems about right.

None of these are ever going to come live with me, either--

but it sure is nice to have them come and visit!!!!