Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I must be honest and say, that I really had no idea where to post these? None of our headings really cover them, since they are Civic, rather than Police. I have had them for some 30 years - a dealer had kept them for me at the giant Newark Fair - these three and a a long wooden staff with the head of a tonsured monk ( monks used to shave the centre of their head) . The story that he gave me, was that they had come from an old Masonic Hall and had been 'stage props'. I realised at once, that they were nothing of the sort and so added them to my collection - where they've been out of place, not being Police. I took the three feet staff (90 cm) to the Victoria & Albert Museum and they identified it as a 16th. Century hand treadled piece ( mid-fifteen hundreds). I decided it was either for a gatekeeper of a monastry or, for an inn keeper. They often had large staves to defend themselves - in any event, the head was probably St. Thomas aBeckett ( Archbishop of Canterbury) - murdered by Henry 2nd. I mention all of this because it gives provenance to the maces , which had also been identified as stage props. I suppose, if the truth was known, they were given away from a large house as unwanted items.There are three pieces - the Mayoral Mace is easily identifiable and would have been carried in procession and then stood in a holder - upright - in front of the mayor. You can still see the two circular marks in the wood where it was stood. The other two pieces could be for the Sheriff and for the High Constable - however, they did not always closely follow our set ideas and therefore, it is possible they were carried by other functionaries. They all have the same type of arms - Dolphins and scallop shells - with the cross pate on top, representing the authority of the Crown. Their composition is Sheffield Plate - invented in 1741 by a man in the Midlands of England , named Thomas Bolsover. The principle was to make a sandwich of silver -copper - silver and roll it out on the new rolling mills. Highly collected it can be worth more than solid silver. These are dated between 1800 and 1820. Their rarity is beyond question - Town regalia does not get given away - it goes to the local Museum - however - there is one possible explanation. In the early 1800's 'greedy and rapacious' Lords of the Manor had Parliament pass an Act, known as the Inclosure Act - this took away the common lands for pasture and crops, that had always been given to 'commoners'. Once they lost their land many towns and villages were unable to support themselves and literally, disappeared - even after hundreds of years in existance. My opinion is that these come from such a defunct town and the regalia was taken by the Lord of the Manor - and later, just given away.My reason for posting this long subject is simple - can any members make suggestions for where these may have come from ?The arms are probably for the POOLE family - who had estates in the North - near Chester. The arms are also similar to Poole in Dorset - however, I have checked and although they lost their mace set in the 1850's , they were recovered. Christies - the auctioneers - thought they were connected with Plymouth - but, I have never agreed with this. Any suggestions will be welcome - a 'modern' mystery ?NEVER POSTED PREVIOUSLY - THE AUTHOR RETAINS COPYRIGHT. NOT TO BE COPIED WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 You will see the stand marks near the end of the handle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 I have always identified this part of the regalia - as the Sheriff's Staff. The copper showing through the silver, is considered very desireable with Sheffield Plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 I always think of this as the High Constable's Staff. Note, this one includes Prince of Wales feathers - could this indicate Wales - or, borders of Wales ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Nice Items!The fish have an oriental dragon look to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 I wouldn't disagree with that look - however, there is no question that they are English. I think we would find the dolphins to have a medieval, styalised appearance. Thanks for replying - I think most members took one look and thought it was outside of their fields... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod g Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 I wouldn't disagree with that look - however, there is no question that they are English. I think we would find the dolphins to have a medieval, styalised appearance. Thanks for replying - I think most members took one look and thought it was outside of their fields... I am so pleased that I joined this group, what a diverse lot you are thanks for shairing these lovly objects I am drooling into my comp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speagle Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Mervyn, EXCELLENT post. Beautiful items! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 27, 2010 Author Share Posted July 27, 2010 Thankyou both for 'life-saving' this old post - over a year ago ! I don't suppose we will ever know their exact origins , which is around 1800. They have to be one of the very few Civil Regalia sets in private hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Mervyn, I think it maybe possible that the High Sheriff staff maybe from Cheshire. The Oak leaf and acorn is a symbol of the county indeed it was the Regimental badge of the Cheshire Regiment. The Prince of Wales is also closely associated with the county maybe due to its border with Wales. He is also historicaly the Colonel in Chief of The Cheshire Regiment. Is there any silver marks on the maces as Chester has its own assaye office? Best Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 27, 2010 Author Share Posted July 27, 2010 Craig - that's great - I'd never connected the oak and the acorns. I had originally thought a little higher-up, but Cheshire would fit nicely as they were badly affected by the enclosure act. Sheffield Plate doesn't have hallmarks - although there are many known maker's marks for SP. Unfortunately, none on any of these. I will contact the Cheshire Museum and report back. It is an important set, so to know the full history would be interesting. Many thanks. Mervyn ps. When are we going to do a short , illustrated history on the Met. Dog unit origins ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Mervyn, Being semi literate on the computer it may be a while! Im waiting for Photo shop to arrive so you never know I maybe able to post some photos soon. Good luck with the Museum Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickLangley Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 The Cheshire connexion sounds very plausible. As for the fish/dolphins: the Lord Mayor of Chester is also Admiral of the Dee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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