3 Bar MGS Pair to KGL Officer Promoted From The Ranks !!

[Ralph]

MY only MGS - to Pte. Henry Mueller 1st Hussars KGL - on the roll under Name and present Rank "Capt. Hanv. Army" is shown which I assume means he carried on serving in the Hanoverian Army. Given that, might there be a file on him in the Hanoverian Archives - although with a name Henry (Heinrich) Mueeler it could be looking for a needle in a haystack?!.

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: WOW!!!! That seems amazing-- promoted from Private to Rittmeister back then?

Anybody with career data on him?

He's not in the 1853 list of officers of the KGL awarded MGS Medals-- presumably since his was named as PRIVATE!!!

I hope we get the rest of THIS story!

Can you post what the roll looks like? Being only the Epson Operator here for the medals passing through, have never seeen any paperwork on them.

Will post the list of officers separately.

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello:

Ludlow Beamish' "History of the King's German Legion" which contains a listing of all officers and personnel with officers rank does not list a Henry Mueller who could be the one referred to above. ( two are listed of whom one was killed during a French sortie at Bayonne 14.Apr.1814.while serving in the 2nd Line Battailon )

BTW: a considerable number of officers seems to have come from NCO ranks.

Bernhard H. Holst

[Ulsterman]

Can we see the edge please?

Are you certain he was in the Hussars?

[Les]

Hello:

Ludlow Beamish' "History of the King's German Legion"............t

For those who want to download and save (a permanent) digital copy of this book, google books has it on line, free, at:

http://books.google.com/books?id=TqIQAAAAY...esnum=1#PPR3,M1

Les

[Ralph]

The edge is impressed Henry Muller 1st Hussars, K.G.L.

Have not quite got the scanning capabilities of other - see if this works

1st Part - Preamble at the head of the roll

[Ralph]

2nd Part - Head of roll entry

[Ralph]

3rd Part - showing his entry - Note there is more than 1 Henry Muller on the roll (Mine is #649 on roll)

Edited May 29, 2009 by Ralph

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup, that's clear enough!

While he wasn't commissioned in the KGL, he obviously was in the post-war Hanoverian Army.

Where do rolls like this come from? All of this is a century before anything I've ever tried looking up.

[Ralph]

They are on microfilm at The National Archives, Kew. Sorted in Regimental Order etc - series WO 100

Ralph

[Guest Rick Research]

This is all new to me (I just run the Epson when treasures pass through to be scanned)-- do you need to go in there and get these yourself?

I'm assuming these rolls must be how Major Gordon did the totals back in his day for "British Battles and Medals."

[Bear]

The Numismatic Circular By Spink & Son - 1975

This catalog has a (Henry Muller, 1st Hussars, KGL).

[Ralph]

The NA will give you a quote for any work that needs doing or you can get a researcher to do the work for you if you cannot do it yourself.

Have a look at their website - I find the entry www.pro.gov.uk the easiest to remember.

There are other things you might find e.g. "service records" in series WO97 for the early years (upto 1873) normally for men awarded a pension.

Ralph

[Guest Rick Research]

:cheers:

And some more perspective. Just discovered August Finkam's 1901 pamhplet on his former collection. He reported a TOTAL of 1,230 GSMs to members of the KGL-- of which 207 had 3 bars like yours. :jumping:

Edited May 30, 2009 by Rick Research

[Guest Rick Research]

Website's being slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww tonight folks, so don't know if I'll be able to get all this in.

Prepare for a ride of attribution back to the 1870s At the end, we shall all sing the "It's A Small, Small World" song.

Here is Ralph's medal:

on sale in

1931 :

[Guest Rick Research]

The pencilled notes may or may not be the actual realized price in Reichsmarks. Note that the medal original came with 8 bars mounted together but loose and a single bar loose as a group lot. Estimated price-- 1931.... Nazis in the streets, Great Depression--

Here is the auctioneer's estimated prices

This is not some online google magic. This is Personal Live Ricky Magic out of a box of very, very old catalogs.

[Guest Rick Research]

From the nationally renowned collection of (names given in incorrect order even by a contemporary German) the very late

Karl Graf zu Innhausen und Knyphausen (usually short formed as Inn- und- Knyphausen):

[Guest Rick Research]

This is where it all began, with the first of four installments of the grand coins, medals (of the medallion sort) and military/civil decorations collection. The explanation of the background to this sale will follow in the next four scans.

[Guest Rick Research]

For those whose German is basic:

The renowned collection had been "peacefully slumbering" in the Provincial Museum in hannover for 44 years, untouched, unduisplayed, tucked away in "Sleeping Beauty slumber" until, in these Worst Of Times, the management decided the whole shebang was surplus to requirements and intended focus-- so out it was to go. Three weeks from being precipitously ditched to first offering for sale. Let this be a GHASTLY OBJECT LESSON of what NOT to do with our own beloved life's accumulations:

DO NOT GIVE YOUR COLLECTION TO MUSEUMS.

There is also reference to two printed catalogs the Count did in 1872 and 1877 which were--in 1931-- still classics of German collecting literature. That would predate the great Victorian British collection catlaogs which I remember as a boy by a full generation.

How's that for famous, eh? :rolleyes:

[Guest Rick Research]

from the 1930 introduction to Count Inn's collection, sold in 4 catalogs in 1930 and 1931.

[Guest Rick Research]

continued

I have Teilen I, II, and IV but not Teil II, so if there was a photo and biography of the Count, it has gone astray. It is a miracle that these have not.

The melancholy here of a great collection being scattered to the winds, the reminder that all of our collections are--and I quote-- only "on loan for our lifetimes" could just as well have been written by any of us, A.D. 2009.

Likewise, the hope that the buyers will be able to improve their own collections with these pieces and enjoy these themselves for a long long time is a common bond with all our collecting brothers, past, present, and future.

[Guest Rick Research]

The end of a reckoning of where that medal had been since at least 1877.

If anyone can identify Karl GRAF zu Innhausen und Knyphausen (usually short-formed as Inn- und- Knyphausen), would appreciate it. The only one I can fiind was a FREIHERR von Inn- und- Knyphausen and were they one in the same, oh ho. That small world would be even smaller.

You may render "It's A Small, Small World" now. :cheers:

[Ralph]

Rick,

Amazed at what you found - Many thanks indeed for taking so much trouble in hunting through your archives and posting what you found. When I bought the medal I was told he was entitled to 9 Bars (according to info published in "Mullens" Roll of the MGS) but a search on the original roll showed 2 Henry Mullers of the 1st Hussars KGL , One a 9 bar recipient and my 3 bar recipient.

Your efforts have proved without doubt that the 3 bar is correct and known in antiquity.

It is, indeed, a small small world!!

Ralph

[speedytop]

Hi Rick,

I don't know, where to post it, here could be the best thread.

Karl Graf von Inn- und Knyphausen, 1831-1880. (Carl Graf ...)

Different sources, please search for "Knyphausen":

The family:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrschaft_Kniphausen

Something military, page 233 (225), No. 319/15, notice "preu?. Hauptmann":

http://www.hadis.hessen.de/hadis-eLink/HSt...0A/findbuch.pdf

The books 1972 and 1977:

http://www.archive.org/stream/anzeigerdesg...rmiala_djvu.txt

The book for the auction, No. 391:

http://archive.sixbid.com/home/auctions/la...08/overview.htm

The different way of writing the name, page 38:

http://www.d-nb.de/standardisierung/pdf/rak_4_erg.pdf

And last, I only found a S.L. Gr. zu Inn u. Knyphausen in the Rangliste 1890 (sorry, that is my oldest Rangliste).

You must search for Inn, but in the index of names for "J"

Kind regards

Uwe

[Ulsterman]

I for one, would be VERY interested in finding out what the Hanovarian records had on pvt. Heinrich Muller. The 1st hussars were a premier, elite unit and for this guy to have only three bars suggests a very nasty wound and posting to the veteran's battalion thereafter.