EK 1914 Pilot's Crosses

[Luftmensch]

Here's a pair of crosses that tells a story.

Hans Loibl flew on the Eastern Front and was shot down and taken prisoner in 1916. A year later he got word in camp that he had been awarded the EK 1, so his fellow officers rigged up an EK 2 (the one on the left), added a little engraving, and presented it to him in a nice ceremony

Rgds

John

[Luftmensch]

Then when he was released in 1920, he purchased his own EK 1 (the one the right).

Rgds

John

[Luftmensch]

P.S. His camp mates gave him a nice chunk of quartz to commemorate their time together!

[joe campbell]

john-

what a marvellous grouping!

very personal and powerful.

i have seen similar EK 2 -- EK1

conversions.

soemewhat like the EK 2 -- RK

conversions noted during WW 2.

thanks!

joe

[Stogieman]

Hi John, now that's a nice little group! Any photo of your man?

[Daniel Murphy]

John,

I can only say WOW! An engraved POW made field converted and an engraved pillow back. In the cases! The quartz thing is OK too. I have some medals attributed to aviators but sadly, none are engraved.

Dan Murphy

[Chris Boonzaier]

A very intresting case! I was unaware that the Russians had german POWs for such a long period!

[VtwinVince]

Mein lieber Herr Luftmensch, all I can say is "Ausgezeichnet". It seems the German officers of the first war had a much nicer time in Siberia than their successors of the second conflict.

[Rendsburg]

Great grouping!

Otto

[Luftmensch]

Hi John, now that's a nice little group! Any photo of your man?

Thanks, all, for the compliments. I have everything, Stogie, BUT a photo. I have his Litewka, cased observers badge...everything including a complete set of POW camp newspapers, which are a bitch to read in Gothic script. Know any translators who do it for love...and not very much money?

Rgds

John

[Daniel Murphy]

Thanks, all, for the compliments. I have everything, Stogie, BUT a photo. I have his Litewka, cased observers badge...everything including a complete set of POW camp newspapers, which are a bitch to read in Gothic script. Know any translators who do it for love...and not very much money?

Rgds

John

John,

You just have to show us the rest, Litewka, cased badge, newspapers, all of it. I think I am not the only one who would like to see it all together.

Chris,

With all of the unrest in Russia during 1917-1919, the new government could probably not have guaranteed their safety in transit and may have wisely decided to wait until the situation normalized to attempt to repatriate them. The new government was responsible for them, if a number were slaughtered while they were trying to return them, it would have created a serious international incident which the Communists did not need. They had their hands full as it was. The French kept their POW's for as long as 1924 and used them for clearing the battlefields of unexploded ordnance, filling in shell holes, trenches, etc. in the so called Red Zone. These were the areas most heavily damaged. I cannot remember the title but I have a modern printing of a Bavarian soldiers diary. He was not returned until 1924 (the same year the naval bockade was lifted) and from the photo taken upon his return, looked very much like a concentration camp inmate.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Daniel Murphy

[Luftmensch]

Wow, I never considered that whole backstory AFTER Nov. 11, Dan. I'm going to dig out those camp newspapers and other tchotckes from Loibl. By the way, I misspoke to Stogie. I think I DO have some photos. (It'a a bad sign when you start confusing groups.) I recall now a photo from the POW camp of Russian officers in charge, one an air force officer wearing a Russian wing! I will start posting more items to flesh this out so check back...

Rgds

John

[Mike K]

Hi John,

I can only agree with the others - WOW - what a great pair of EKs and a I can't wait to see the rest of the grouping.

Regards

Mike K

[Les]

Chris,

With all of the unrest in Russia during 1917-1919, the new government could probably not have guaranteed their safety in transit and may have wisely decided to wait until the situation normalized to attempt to repatriate them. The new government was responsible for them, if a number were slaughtered while they were trying to return them, it would have created a serious international incident which the Communists did not need. They had their hands full as it was. The French kept their POW's for as long as 1924 and used them for clearing the battlefields of unexploded ordnance, filling in shell holes, trenches, etc. in the so called Red Zone. These were the areas most heavily damaged. I cannot remember the title but I have a modern printing of a Bavarian soldiers diary. He was not returned until 1924 (the same year the naval bockade was lifted) and from the photo taken upon his return, looked very much like a concentration camp inmate.

Dan,

The Treaty of Brest-Kitovsk signed on 3 March 1918, between the Germans and the new Soviet Russian government stipulated terms that the Russians were forced to accept. You can read the terms (in English) at this link: http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1918/brestlitovsk.html

The signing of the Treaty didn't mean that the Germans withdrew to the borders, but in actuality far from it. German troops were still in Russia on occupation duty, and as a means of making certain the Russians complied with the terms of the Treaty. If the Russians, didn't the Germans resorted to resuming local operations and advancing further into Russian territory...something the Russians did not want. The Germans used this implied threat as a way of getting compliance, and at times, actually did resort to resuming small scale operations.

The naval blockade against Germany was in full force after the November 11 armistice as a means of pressure against the new German government to accept and sign the Treaty terms, and remained in effect until the signing of the Treaty of Versailles in June 1919. It did not continue against the Germans...or the Russians until 1924.

During the three years of the Russian civil war (1918-1920) there was considerable unrest, and neither the Whites or Reds could guarrentee much of anything. Groups of armed soliders could (and did) make their way home....the best known example being the Czech Legion that revolted against the Russians in May 1918, and then began a two year return journey home by fighting their way -EAST- to Vladivostock.

Allied (British, American and Japanese) troops intervened against the Soviets in 1918/1919 primarily at Vladivostock, and the Murmansk area in an effort to guard supply depots/arms caches against Red forces. There was no real blockade against the Russians, outside of an arms embargo against the Reds, but not the insurgent Whites.

A very small number of former German POWs were still inside Russia, but not as prisoners, after the 1919 Treaty of Versailles. Some of them were slow getting home, but it was not because the Russians were unable to guarrentee their safety, as it was the inability during the Civil War, to provide reliable transportation for repatriating former POWs. Some decided to wait for a ride home while others opted for forming small bands and walking homewards.

German POWs held in France after the war are another story, and yes, the French used and worked them for some time after the official end of the war. (They did the same thing in 1945...one of my relatives was a Fallschirmjaeger that was in a hospital inside Germany that was over run by French troops shortly before the war ended, and found himself being beld for several months after the war was over. He was only released by the French after six months when they were unable to use him because of his wounds. His brother on the other hand was a Heer pioneer officer and held for two years by the French...).

Les

[Rendsburg]

Hi John,

Trying to help you, I've made some research in another forum that I frequent, here's the answer from Reinhard.

PS. Are you Aerowallah?

Otto,

I found a bavarian observer with the name Hans Loibl.

Leutnant der Reserve

Hans Loibl

9. bayer. Reldartillerie-Regiment

* 19.07.1889 Siegenburg

01/10/1915 Beobachter-Kurs VIII/14

09/10/1915 Flieger-Ersatz-Abteilung Schlei?heim

15/11/1915 Artillerie-Beobachter-Kurs J?terbog

29/08/1916 Feldflieger-Abteilung 4b

31/08/1916 POW Russland

22/05/1920 zur?ck

I have Hans Loibl report about his capture, but it is in german language. Maybe Immo can translate this for us.

Bericht von Lt.d.R. Loibl ?ber die Gefangennahme:

Am 31. August 1916 machte ich mit U.O. Busse als Flugzeugf?hrer einen Fernflug von der bayer. Feldfliegerabteilung 4 b aus Kowel - Kowno. ?ber Kowno erhielten wir einen Schu? in die Maschine und mu?ten notlanden, da uns das K?hlwasser aus dem Tank lief und der Motor hei?lief.

Schon in der Absicht den Schaden zu reparieren, landeten wir neben einen einzelnen Gutshof. Unter Androhung der Besitzer mit dem Pistole holten wir darum, was wir zur Reparatur notwendig brauchten.

Nachdem wir ungef?hr 1 Stunde gearbeitet hatten, erhielten wir pl?tzlich aus einem Wald in der rechten Flanke aus einer Entfernung von 300 m heftiges und wirkungsvolles Feuer. Wir bekamen nochmals mehrere Treffer in den Apparat. Schnell entschlossen, denn ich durfte mich nicht lange besinnen, sonst w?ren wir durch dies Beschie?ung aus so geringer Entfernung im n?chstem Augenblick erledigt worden, nahm ich das Maschinengewehr und hielt den Wald unter lang andauerndes starkes Feuer.

Im Walde befand sich russisches Milit?r, das mittlerweile ausger?ckt war und gedeckt durch den Wald an uns herangekommen war und den Waldrand besetz hielt. Durch mein starkes Maschinengewehrfeuer brachte ich das russische zum Schweigen, so da? in der weiteren 1 ? Stunden, die wir noch f?r die Reparatur brauchten, nichts mehr gegen uns erfolgte. Nachdem der Motor alsdann in Ordnung war, starteten wir weg und zwar mu?ten wir hart an der Meierei vorbei, wohl wegen des Gel?ndes keine andere M?glichkeit war. Dabei passierte uns der Ungl?cksfall, das eine Kuh von einer weidenden Rinderherde scheu geworden und in die Startbahn lief und gerade noch den Propeller und Fahrgestell, denn wir waren nicht h?her, getroffen wurden. Wir st?rzten unmittelbar neben den Gutshof, woraus dann dort angesammelter Milit?r und Knechte auf uns losst?rzten und uns gefangen nahmen. Dies war ungef?hr mittags um 12 Uhr.

Am Abend wurden wir nach Kowno transportiert.

Ich erkl?re diese Angaben nach besten Wissen und Gewissen gemacht zu haben.

Hans Loibl

Ltn.d.Res. a.D.

Thats all.

greeting

Reinhard

[David Gregory]

That is an astonishing group, of which I would like to see the rest.

The passage quoted in German above translates approximately as follows:

Report by Lt.d.R. Loibl on his capture:

On 31 August 1916 I made a long-distance flight with Unteroffizier Busse as my pilot from bayer. Feldfliegerabteilung 4 b from Kowel to Kowno. The aircraft took a shot above Kowno and we had to make an emergency landing, as the cooling water was draining out of the tank and the motor was overheating.

We landed next to a single farm with the intention to repair the damage. Threatening the owner with a pistol, we gathered what we needed.

After we had been working for about an hour, we suddenly started receiving strong and effective fire in the right flank from a wood at a distance of about 300 m. We received several more rounds in the machine. Since fire from such a short distance would have quickly dispatched us, I had little time to react and quickly decided to take the machine gun and placed the wood under strong and continuous fire.

Russian soldiers in the wood had already formed up and approached us under cover and had occupied the edge of the wood. My strong machine gun fire silenced the Russian fire, which meant that nothing more was undertaken against us during the further 1 ? hours that we needed for the repair. When the motor was finally repaired, we taxied off and had to pass the dairy as the terrain left us no other choice. This is where the accident happened when a cow from a grazing herd took fright and ran onto the runway and just clipped the propeller and undercarriage, as we weren?t any higher. We crashed right next to the farm, and the soldiers and farmhands gathered there leapt on us and took us prisoner. This was at about 12 o?clock midday.

We were transported to Kowno in the evening.

I declare that this statement is made to the best of my knowledge and conscience.

Hans Loibl

Ltn.d.Res. a.D.

I look forward to seeing the rest of the group.

David

[Luftmensch]

Outstanding work! you two. This is indeed my man. I will dig out everything I have this weekend and post it for you.

Best rgds

John, aka Aerowallah

P.S. I am amazed that after such a spirited defence the Russians took them prisoners at all.