AUSTRALIAN BADGES - HELP REQ..

[Mervyn Mitton]

Rob - you and Tony will have to start the flashes - never had an interest in them. However, your posting of the book on old badges - (yet another one I would like !!! ) could be a good topic ? I've got a couple of old ones - Victoria and Q'land, helmet plates. I posted them quite a while ago, but if I redo them it might spark some interest? The problem with the historical things is that they cost so much and the youngsters go for more modern pieces. (Gee..that ages me !!) I know Stuart has a lovely plate on a Wolsely - West Aust.. Do either of you have any historical items ?

[Tony]

I'm afraid I only have a couple of pieces of Australian militaria, the hat badge, an officer's BWM (Australian MGC), some photos, a silver war badge and one unidentified patch which could have belonged to any army wearing khaki.

AIF militaria is an expensive side of the hobby.

Tony

[Colin Davie]

Here is another little book.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130326537403&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[Stuart Bates]

Mervyn,

my Western Australian plate is on a Boer War helmet not a Wolseley. See my thread on Boer War Helmets.

I also have a Colonial Pattern helmet with the NSW Badge of Colony plate but I have forgotten the thread

The only other Australian badge I have is to the Australian Engineers and is on a 1914 dated Wolseley.

Here is a book on Australian Colour Patches. I wish I could remember why I bought it!

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

I notice that there are books by J.K. Cossum on Bosley's next auction. Lot number 645 -

Vols 1 - 3 of Australian Badges

Australian Army Badges, The Rising Sun Badge.

I have given up trying to win anything via a postal bid.

Stuart

[Mervyn Mitton]

Stuart - next time we talk, or email - I will tell you about your above comment !!

I have been amazed at the response to this thread - we are up to 55 posts - I think it has gone far from the simple 'help on badges'. I would like to make a suggestion - and what we finally do must be a concensus opinion - why don't we ask Nick to change the title to a more descriptive one and continue posting everything Australian with a military link ? There is just so much useful info. already on here and as a continuing thread it would become an available source of information - for example - just look at the listing for ref. books ...

With the new index it will all be available to anyone looking it up.

My suggestion for a title: AUSTRALIAN MILITARY HISTORY OR, AUSTRALIAN MILITARY RESEARCH

A Continuing thread... Some history on equipment

Let's have your suggestions - if you think we've reached 'the end of the road' then the post can pass into that 'great archive in the sky' !

(Gee ! I'm nearly as corny as Rick can be..)

[Mervyn Mitton]

These were posted a little time ago - however, I think it is worth repeating them on our Australian thread.

This is a Victorian (pre-1901) Helmet Plate for the State of Victoria Militia. The helmet was the blue pattern - similar to a police helmet.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Victorian Helmet Plate for the State of Queensland. This is quite a rare item in that on the reverse it has the lead seal of acceptance from the Military Board that passed the pattern for the Army. When a decision was made, a number were fixed with these seals and sent to interested departments. For example, one would go to Quartemasters Dept., one to the maker, one to the Divisional HQ, etc.. Then, if a sub-standard badge was produced, it could be compared with the accepted original.

Both of these badges would have been gilt originally.

[Stuart Bates]

I have posted this before but in light of Mervyn's comments it also belongs here. My Western Australian Boer War helmet with the black swan plate.

Stuart

Edited September 1, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Stuart Bates]

And here is the NSW badge of the Colony plate.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Stuart - one could never be bored looking at these lovely helmets. Would the two State badges I put on , be for blue or, white helmets ?

[RobW]

Hello Mervyn,

Further to post #48 here is an illustration from that reference. It shows a member of the Victorian Military Forces circa 1890 wearing the helmet plate that you have illustrated. Given that it is a black and white pic it is, of course, undetermined what colour the helmet is.

It is further mentioned in that reference (page 187) that the specific helmet plate was worn on both blue and green cloth helmets.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

[Stuart Bates]

The Queensland plate would appear to have been issued to the 1st and 2nd Queensland Regiments of Infantry.

They wore a white helmet.

An illustration I have shows a soldier of the 2nd with a Martini-Henry rifle and is dated 1901.

Stuart

[Mervyn Mitton]

The Forum always amazes me - one post and we have the State of Victoria uniform and the helmet - and for Queensland, we know exactly which Regts. Thankyou.

I am still of the opinion that this material should be available for future members - however, no-one has followed up on the suggestion that we change the Title and that we all continue posting Aust. items - or, at least those that don't need their own thread. We all have to agree to this - so let's hear what you think. Stuart did say he was in favour.

[RobW]

Mervyn,

Being new to the forum I'm not sure of how long a thread remains active for before it is 'archived' so my comments may be off the mark.

I am not sure of how many fellow Australians are posting here but to my mind if there was a generic title (AUSTRALIAN MILITARY RESEARCH as has been suggested) that stayed active, there would at least be one location that subsequent forum posters could go to when conducting any Australian military research. If the subject remains open I would be more inclined to drop in and have a look when I have the time, or answer queries if I can.

Just my 2 cents worth !

Regards,

Rob

Edited September 5, 2009 by RobW

[Mervyn Mitton]

Rob , I don't think they disappear - rather they go onto earlier pages. If we decide to make this a general Aussie discussion thread , then new posts will keep it coming to the top. Really will be down to us as to how long we keep it interesting.

[Tony]

I can't match the helmets shown but here's a sweetheart badge made from a collar dog.

Tony

Edited December 17, 2009 by Tony

[Tony]

This soldier (his name is Albert) is wearing a patch which I can't place, I'd have thought he'd be infantry but he's also wearing breeches.

On his left sleeve is a sewn on wound stripe and he's wearing a great modified pocket watch as a wristwatch by having had lugs soldered to the case for the strap.

Any guesses on the patch? The card is dated Feb. 1917 and Albert apologises to Lottie for looking so serious.

Tony

[Mervyn Mitton]

Tony - great post and very interesting. I wonder where the watch came from ? Perhaps a family item - or, not enough money for a wrist watch so they made-up this one.

I have seen several sunburst Aust. collars converted into 'Sweethearts' - sometimes they have them gilded. The most moving was one brought in by a great-niece of a soldier killed at Gallipoli - his Sister had the brooch made-up and it had descended down. I gave it to an Aussie collector, so that the history would not be forgotten.

[Tony]

Mervyn,

I actually bought this card to use as a swap or to sell on but when it arrived I decided to keep it. It was bought from the UK so he could possibly be English, I know just by looking at AIF records that a great deal of their soldiers were born in England.

The watch did it for me as I have a bit of a watch fetish. I have 2 Great War period trench watches and also my great grandfather's pocket watch which was apparently liberated from a Boer by someone and then my great grandfather won it in a game of cards on the ship on the way home.

The patch has thrown me, after checking digger history there are a few it could be, all infantry, but I don't understand the breeches. Would have been nice if it was an ALH patch.

Tony

[Stuart Bates]

The best I came up with, on checking Keith Glyde's book Distinguishing Colour Patches of the Australian Military Forces, was three strips to the 9th, 10th and 11th Australian Field Ambulance, 1917. He states that a strip of 9" long by 1/2" wide possibly was used in, respectively, green, red and light blue. He does not say whether it was worn vertically or horizontally.

This was requested on 31/5/1917 and the shoulder flash is certainly not 9" in length, but since the photo predates that request of the C.O. 10th Aust. Field Ambulance, who knows what was used prior to that date. Nothing is sacred.

I feel that I have just muddied the waters, but...

Stuart

Edited December 18, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Tony]

The best I came up with, on checking Keith Glyde's book Distinguishing Colour Patches of the Australian Military Forces, was three strips to the 9th, 10th and 11th Australian Field Ambulance, 1917. He states that a strip of 9" long by 1/2" wide possibly was used in, respectively, green, red and light blue. He does not say whether it was worn vertically or horizontally.

This was requested on 31/5/1917 and the shoulder flash is certainly not 9" in length, but since the photo predates that request of the C.O. 10th Aust. Field Ambulance, who knows what was used prior to that date. Nothing is sacred.

I feel that I have just muddied the waters, but...

Stuart

It's possible the FA used a smaller strip before that and if he was an ambulance driver it could maybe explain the breeches.

Tony

[Tony]

Going by the size of the badge in the bottom right corner, I'd say the men of the AIF got a little carried away when cutting into the chalk.

The card was posted by Jack from the AIF Camp PO but I can't make out a date. No doubt there were several AIF camps.

He sent it to Miss Poole in Blackheath, London.

Tony

[Tony]

I may have shown this card before but wanted to show it here because of the patch on his left arm which I believe is from the Australian Flying Corps.

The reverse:

Wishing you all compliments of the season.

Len

Hope this satisfies you

Noted in modern handwriting:

Cousin Len who came over from Australia in World War I.

Tony

Edited January 7, 2010 by Tony

[Mervyn Mitton]

Tony - does the sh. title read 'Australia' ? I can't quite make it out. Have never seen much on the Flying Corps for Aussie - wouldn't he have had a separate type ? The Sth. African air force in WW1 was under British names.

(I want to send a picture of an old watch - nothing to do with this thread, but I know you collect and might find it of interest. Not trying to sell - more research yet. I don't think we can attach pictures on an IM ? So, please send me your email)