Presentation Bayonet. (Translation please)

[Thomas Symmonds]

Hello Gentlemen.

I recently picked up this lovely presentation bayonet still in its wooden box. It has

"FABRICA MILITAR DE ARMAS PORTATILES 'DM' ROSARIO D.G.F.M. INDUSTRIA ARGENTINA" on the blade

followed by FM inside two circles.

(I am assuming its made in Argentinia, and the language is Spanish?).

The plaque inside the lid reads,

" La Fabrica Militar de Armas Portatiles

Domingo Mateu

al Sr Tte Gral

D. Werndly. R. van der Riet

Rosario - 15 Nov - 72"

Any help here would be very much appreciated.

ID on the bayonet??

Regards,

Thomas

[Richie B]

Thomas

This is a standard Argentine fighting/survival knife - Still used in 1982.

La Fabrica Militar de Armas Portatiles Domingo Mateu - Argentine arms manufacturing facility at Rosario.

Sr Tte Gral is short for Senor Teniente General (Lieutenant General)

The name sounds like Dutch or South African - might be worth a Google.

Hope this helps a little

Richie

BTW - it isn't a bayonet of course !

Edited June 12, 2009 by Richie B

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thomas - does it have the fittings to go on a bayonet ? Looking at it I would have said more a bowie knife in the tradition of the gauchos - who fastened it around the thigh from the bottom hole. The inscription seems to be the maker's name - where are the Spanish speakers ?

[Thomas Symmonds]

Thank you Richie, and yes you are quite correct - it is not a bayonet. It has been a bayonet day for me today and the word just seems to have stuck.

Googling is very addictive when one is on a trail ... this is by no means definitive, and could even be totally wrong, but that is what makes collecting and searching for provenance great!

This is quotation is from "South African Military History Society - Journal - PIET BOTHA - A SOUTH AFRICAN PATRIOT"

"Major W R van der Riet, MC, ('Booysie' to his men), was promoted to command of the battalion when Lt Col Bester was promoted to Brigadier. He retired in 1974 from the SADF as Chief of Defence Staff with the rank of Lieutenant General."

The game is on! Thanks again for the translation.

Regards,

Thomas

[Richie B]

Thomas

Glad you found your man

Richie

Thank you Richie, and yes you are quite correct - it is not a bayonet. It has been a bayonet day for me today and the word just seems to have stuck.

Googling is very addictive when one is on a trail ... this is by no means definitive, and could even be totally wrong, but that is what makes collecting and searching for provenance great!

This is quotation is from "South African Military History Society - Journal - PIET BOTHA - A SOUTH AFRICAN PATRIOT"

"Major W R van der Riet, MC, ('Booysie' to his men), was promoted to command of the battalion when Lt Col Bester was promoted to Brigadier. He retired in 1974 from the SADF as Chief of Defence Staff with the rank of Lieutenant General."

The game is on! Thanks again for the translation.

Regards,

Thomas

Edited June 12, 2009 by Richie B

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thomas - my reply had crossed with Richie's , so I hadn't seen his translation. Well done that you have found the history - funnily enough I had wondered about Argentina - there used to be close ties with S.A. pre-1994.

[Louwrens]

A comment 7 years later.

I found the posts when Googling for information on Lt Gen Van der Riet. I knew him personally - we were neighbours for some years during the 1980s - and he and my late father-in-law on occasion served together with the 6th SAAD in Italy (WW 2).  You may want to have a look at i.a.

http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol082lw.html

http://alchetron.com/Werndly-Van-der-Riet-1383729-W

There are also references in Jack Kros's War in Italy.

Regards,

Louwrens

[Thomas Symmonds]

Good day Louwrens -

Thank you for making contact, and re-awakening this topic.

I found this knife tucked away in a second hand furniture store in Somerset West, Western Cape, all those years ago. It struck as quite an interesting item, and was keen to find out more about the man it was presented to.

He does seem to have been the real soldier. I have always wondered how this came to be separated from his other items. Like medals, I suppose with each generation the detachment grows. Good for us collectors, but a bit sad for the family member who might at some stage take an interest ...

Just for information to other readers, Gen van der Riet was awarded the following medals for his service: (I wonder where these are now ...  )

 

•  Star of South Africa (SSA)

•  Southern Cross Medal (SM)

•  Military Cross (MC)

•  Union Medal

•  1939–45 Star

•  Africa Star

•  Italy Star

•  War Medal 1939–1945

•  Africa Service Medal (WWII)

 

best regards

Thomas

 

[peter monahan]

And I wonder how the knife made its way from Argentina to SA - probably the easy half to explain- and then to Somerset!  The joys of collecting.

[Louwrens]

Hallo Thomas,

As I mentioned the other day, my wife and I were neigbours of the Van der Riets. That was in Pretoria during the 1980s.

Gen Booysie Van der Riet's son was also a SA Army officer. I forget his given name, but will inquire from people who served with him.

If I am not mistaken, the son reached the rank of Lt. Col. (or Commandant - I do not now recall the dates of the various changes in title!), but he left the SADF and South Africa for the USA sometime in the early 1990s.

It is quite possible that the person cited in http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-carbary/4-reasons-most-people-wil_b_6831106.html is Booysie vd Riet's namesake grandson. "Hits" will fill one or two Google pages if you do a search on Renaut van der Riet. I once tried to contact the grandson with regard to photos from WW2 which I found in my father-in-law's collection (see below), but I have not received a reply.

Another piece of non-information - 'non' because it is vague and I have thus far failed to recover the report: Earlier this year I stumbled across a brief report (in Die Burger archives, I seem to recall) on General Van der Riet's funeral in (I think) Cape Town. If the funeral was indeed in the Western Cape, that might go some distance to tracing the route of the knife. Perhaps the General moved to the Cape after his wife's death.

I would hope that the medals are still with the family.

As for my late father-in-law's connection with Booysie: At the end of the campaign in Italy, Booysie and Capt. H. W. 'Tommy' Torr (ex-DMR, in Italy with the RDLI) travelled around to thank Italian families who looked after escapee SA POWs. We have some photographs taken by Tommy of one such family - including photos which show the then Major Van der Riet with the family.

Regards,

Louwrens