Bavarian 1870 Silver Bravery Medal Bar

[dond]

Thoughts on this bar please.

[dond]

The reverse.

[dond]

And a close up of the bravery medal.

[TacHel]

WOW! Awesome set!

No Wilhelm der Grosse medal?

Edited August 5, 2009 by TacHel

[scottplen]

I second THAT WWWWOOOOOWWWWW !!!!! but would he be a prussian with Ek 1st ?

Edited August 5, 2009 by scottplen

[Beau Newman]

VERY nice group. The bar combination would point to the 2nd Bavarian Army Corps with 3 of the 4 bars normally seen on II BAK groups. It is missing the WORTH bar but it's very possible that a wound or sickness could have kept him out of that action.

[TacHel]

... but would he be a prussian with Ek 1st ?

Prussian medals were bestowed upon all participants, soldiers from Bavaria, Wurttemberg, Baden etc...

[Wild Card]

:love: :love:

[VtwinVince]

Dammit, you're the one who beat me to that spange.

[dond]

Thanks guys. I wondered about the EK2 being in first place and the lack of a Centennial medal myself. Then I figured, given it is a Jubilee period bar, why not the EK2 in first place. As for the Centennial, perhaps he didn't feel the need given the awards shown or this bar was put together for the Jubilee and prior to institution of the Centennial. I'll post better pics when it arrives.

Now, given the combination of awards, the possible units based upon the battle clasps, and the date of the bar can we put a name to it? Perhaps cross referencing against the Prussian EK rolls?

[Stogieman]

The only thing that seems not correct is the precedence. Even during the Jubilee period, a Bavarian would not have mounted his SBM in second place... Having said that, as a whole, the bar looks fine. Just incorrect precedence

[Ulsterman]

Is he tracable? We have the EK2 list, so I would suppose the Bav. medal list is also available.

[Schießplatzmeister]

Is he tracable? We have the EK2 list, so I would suppose the Bav. medal list is also available.

Hello everyone:

It would not be possible to come up with the recipient's name in my opinion. There are far too many NCO's and soldiers who probably received this combination of awards.

Stogieman is correct in that a Bavarian would probably with few exceptions never place his TKM behind the EKII in a group. This makes the group highly unusual. I have however seen a photo of an 1870-71 Bavarian veteran who did wear his TKM behind the EKII with the medals pinned to his tunic individually. For Bavarians, they usually wore the TKM in the first position on their large medal groups until the mid-1930's when the NSDAP regulations changed everything to a standardized Prussian bias (even MMJO Knight's Cross recipients had to wear their MMJO BEHIND the lowly EKII!!).

The TKM in this group is genuine, and the ribbon for it is old (original). This looks to be a good group that has not been messed with (although a somewhat unusual group in my opinion). This is of course the second coinage of the silver TKM awarded for the 1870-71 conflict.

Congratulations Dond on obtaining such a nice group!

Best regards,

"SPM" (note that the new website format has changed me from "Schießplatzmeister" to "Schie?platzmeister").

[TacHel]

Stogieman makes a good point. A Bavarian would've normally mounted the EK2 2nd. Could this possibly be a Prussian decorated by a Bavarian unit? If so, he should be more easily identifiable.

[Stogieman]

(New software upgrade is not yet recognizing non-english letters)

[Guest Rick Research]

I have never seen a list of 1870/71 Bravery Medal recipients.

It might be theoretically possible that a Prussian got a "courtesy" award, since I have posted the Militärpaß of an ordinary Prussian NCO who got the Saxon St Henry Medal in Gold (!!!!!!) apparently on some sort of "quota exchange" to wear with his EK2. NO connection whatsoever with Saxony in his case.

I'm not aware of any non-Bavarians receiving this bravery medal during the World War, so chances are here it was simply mis-mounted by a Bavarian who THOUGHT the Iron Cross "outranked" it.

[Schießplatzmeister]

I have never seen a list of 1870/71 Bravery Medal recipients.

It might be theoretically possible that a Prussian got a "courtesy" award, since I have posted the Militärpaß of an ordinary Prussian NCO who got the Saxon St Henry Medal in Gold (!!!!!!) apparently on some sort of "quota exchange" to wear with his EK2. NO connection whatsoever with Saxony in his case.

I'm not aware of any non-Bavarians receiving this bravery medal during the World War, so chances are here it was simply mis-mounted by a Bavarian who THOUGHT the Iron Cross "outranked" it.

Hello again:

The only listings of 1870/71 TKM recipients that I am aware of are in Bavarian regimental histories. I have never seen a TKM awarded to a non-Bavarian during any time period. I find it extremely unlikely that the recipient of this group was not a Bavarian.

Best regards,

"SPM"

[dond]

Are there any on-line histories?

[HeikoGrusdat]

the missing 1897 Centenar medal makes the date clear - this bar is from between 1895 and 1987 !!! In 1895 both , the EK oakleaves and the battle clasps for the 70/71 medal were given out 25 years after the war and our man put the oakleaves and the clasps on his bar - in 1897 the Centenar maedal was given out and every still living soldier from the 70/71 war got one - I am shure that he would have put it on his bar too.... so in my eyes this bar is 100% from 1896 (+-2months )