Dieter3 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 So how many flavors of medal are there? They all seem to have the same obverse, but differ in the reverse. These are all green ribbon, this is the one I've seen most often: Then there's this version with extra marking on the reverse (sorry, no pic. of the obverse.....): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Then there's the blank reverse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 And lastly, the white ribbon version, I've only seen one type of reverse to the white ribbon: So what's the story with the two ribbon colors and very different reverse on the white ribbon version?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 These are all post war veteran pieces. The originals are incredibly rare. I think you have probably got all the post war versions there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichC Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Paul is correct. I think you have posted all the varieties. As for the last two you posted, the extra marking means 'pure silver' so these usually get a higher price. Although they are indeed not the real thing, they are certainly not fakes. Replicas, yes, but not fakes. The group that made these in the 1970s (and perhaps later) never intended to deceive anyone. They were given to veterans. The reason I wrote that is I have read on other forums that people are angry that so many fake ones are being sold. If a seller is claiming that it is authentic when it isn't, the medal itself (and its makers) are not at fault; the seller is. Cheers, Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichC Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 By the way, if you are looking for a rare replica, it is probably the one with the blank reverse. That is the first one I have seen of its kind, and it may be an error. A rare replica variant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Yeah, I was surprised to see that one with the blank reverse! I'm not yet in the market for one of these, just gathering data. I figured none of these were original, prices are a fraction of a fraction of what an original would go for I'd imagine! I certainly don't mind collecting an authentic, post-war reproduction! On the one with the white ribbon - were these a later version of the medal, or were they made along with the green ribbon version? Wondering why the dramatic difference in design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex82 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 could the one with the blank reverse probably also be a fake? there is no hook on the backside and it looks like there wasn't any in the past... but on the other hand I see no point in faking this medal at all, maybe it is simply a unfinished one. cheers a l e x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Hi Dieter, As long as your not spending a lot of money, I don't think you can go terribly wrong collecting these. They seem to be popular space fillers for many collectors; certainly a few interesting varieties. Here is the front PIC of a supposedly original piece that sold on a high-end auction house a couple years ago. I can't find a reverse PIC and may not have one. Tim The border on originals should have only chrysanthemums and not anchors or stars or ??? Edited September 22, 2009 by Tim B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Hi Dieter, As long as your not spending a lot of money, I don't think you can go terribly wrong collecting these. They seem to be popular space fillers for many collectors; certainly a few interesting varieties. Here is the front PIC of a supposedly original piece that sold on a high-end auction house a couple years ago. I can't find a reverse PIC and may not have one. Tim The border on originals should have only chrysanthemums and not anchors or stars or ??? This is the medal which was in the ANS collection and I was the purchaser. I have posted photos of the reverse in one of the earlier posts in the Japan forum (or the collectors gallery) so take a look at it there. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 :lol: Why doesn't that surprise me! You're a lucky man Paul. Yes, I seen a lot of beautiful pieces on that site. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 What is the ANS collection? So, the medal Tim posted looks a lot like the very first pic. way up at the top of the thread. The other ones, the differences are obvious. What are some of the tell-tale signs of the original replicas vs. the original originals?? I have also seen these in wooden cases with gilt writing as well as the black ones. In what kind of case were the originals placed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 ANS = American Numismatic Society. They sold all their non US items two years ago at Morton & Eden. There are a number of die differences between the original and the post war piece. It will be one of the things I discuss once I finally get around to writing my book on Japanese medals since at the moment the information is not published. Also this piece differs from the comments made in Peterson so there is still some research needed to get to the bottom of the issue about the direction of the inscription on the bar (Peterson claims it is left to right only). Regarding a case of issue, I do not know anybody who has ever seen an original. If one existed it would most likely have been a pasteboard box since this is what Japan had moved to for its awards by this time (even late war awards of the Sacred Treasure are in a pasteboard box). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Regarding a case of issue, I do not know anybody who has ever seen an original. If one existed it would most likely have been a pasteboard box since this is what Japan had moved to for its awards by this time (even late war awards of the Sacred Treasure are in a pasteboard box). Interesting!! Were any of the Golden Kites or Rising Suns issued in pasteboard, or just the ST's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGUNTAI Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Gold center variant. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200388328026 Until OCT. 3rd George Edited September 27, 2009 by JGUNTAI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Interesting!! Were any of the Golden Kites or Rising Suns issued in pasteboard, or just the ST's? I am only aware of the Sacred Treasure in a pasteboard box. The Golden Kite continued to be issued in the lacquer case but I am not sure about the Rising Sun. One source claims that they were issued in a paper wrapper but there is no proof of this either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Gold center variant. George Very cool!! I've not seen that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Something I have observed over the past several months of data collecting is that the White Ribbon versions will often have the rosette with them, while the Green Ribbon versions do not. Granted, I've only really been paying attention for the past 6-7 months or so, but I have never seen the green version with a rosette! Can anybody verify one way or the other, did the "greens" ever come with them? Originals with rosettes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 Something I have observed over the past several months of data collecting is that the White Ribbon versions will often have the rosette with them, while the Green Ribbon versions do not. Granted, I've only really been paying attention for the past 6-7 months or so, but I have never seen the green version with a rosette! Can anybody verify one way or the other, did the "greens" ever come with them? Originals with rosettes? Nobody?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGUNTAI Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Is this closer to the real one anyone? Wooden kiri box. Finer detail on the backside characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 Is this closer to the real one anyone? Wooden kiri box. Finer detail on the backside characters. I've wondered about that too - the wooden case vs. the plastic ones. I like this one, still no idea how to tell an authentic authentic vs. authentic replica. I was thinking about bidding, but I've seen others in wooden cases, so I know they're out there. A bit more corrosion than I like to see, and some marks on the ribbon. I'm a picky bastard! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 I've wondered about that too - the wooden case vs. the plastic ones. I like this one, still no idea how to tell an authentic authentic vs. authentic replica. I was thinking about bidding, but I've seen others in wooden cases, so I know they're out there. A bit more corrosion than I like to see, and some marks on the ribbon. I'm a picky bastard! Well, if it was an original one, somebody got a darned good deal on it! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 It was a veteran replica, not an original piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 How does one discern a replica from an original? They look so very similar, are there any particular features that vary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 The balsa wood box is used by one of the manufacturers of the veteran pieces, so even without looking at the medal the box is a give away. Japan stopped using balsa wood boxes for her official awards after the Victory Medal and the 1914-20 War Medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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