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Brian

The Regiment of Tirailleurs (nicknamed "Turcos") were engaged in the Crimean campaign and received 7 AVMs, 2 of which went to native Algerians (one sergeant and one bugler).

114 AVMs went to the Tirailleurs for the Campaign in Italy, but I have no idea how many were awarded to native Algerians. A conservative estimate would be 10 to 20. This was a generous batch, quite comparable to the numbers allotted to other Infantry units, and possibly more than some all French regiments received.

In both instances, the Sardinian Government made a number of medals available for the French Army to decide who would be honored. Offical lists were submitted and the appropriate diplomas issued by the Sardinians.

Tirailleurs were popular with the general public in France who thought they were exotic. Their officers saw that the Regiments were properly treated and the men were warriors to their families. Since fighting in Algeria practically never stopped between 1830 and 1870 the best French officers were keen on having a command with them.

Regards

Paul

Hi Paul

Your knowledge on this field is awesome. I wonder where those two Crimean AVM's are hiding & Italian Campaign ones too. Perhaps there lying comfortably in a West African collector or worse lost in the desert forever. Thanks for informing me on there fighting qualities and how competitive it was for the French officers to have them serve under their command.

Sincerely

Brian

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Hello,

Thanks to Vétéran for his first rate summary about the Sardinian AVM awarded to the French forces for Crimea and Italy campaigns.

Concerning the navy medal, I have only listed 22 such medals awarded to the French navy , but yours is the only one with an attribution to the Vauban I have ever seen.

This war ship belonged to the siege fleet under admiral Bouët Willaumez's command, eligible for the French Italy commemorative medal, for service between May 3rd and July 8th 1859.It was a paddle frigate, launched 1845 at Lorient, engaged in the Baltic and Crimea campaigns, and in Italy under C.V. Coupvent-Desbois' command.

(Curiously, she was sunk, March 23rd 1866 by an experimental mine in Toulon harbour). (From Jacques Vichot, répertoire des navires de guerre français, 1967).

1.000 AVM could have been awarded to the French navy for this campaign.

''Chamouillé'' 's name is noticed in the files of the 9th artillery regiment, with the awarding of the AVM medal :

s2d2lt.jpg

I have in my collection this second AVM to the 9th R.A., with a nice engraving and a particular ornamental scroll above the attribution.

29opp51.jpg

It would be of interest to make a comparison with your medal : could you please post a scan or a photograph of it ? (I use myself : http://tinypic.com/ : very simple to utilize).

About the ''Turcos'' regiment, the Sardinians give : four crosses of the military order of Savoy ; three knight of the Saints Maurice and Lazare order ;

And 114 AVM, awarded to :

13 commissioned officers, (included four ''natives'') ;

57 NCO, included 29 Natives ;

And 44 Tirailleurs, (5 French and 39 Natives).

Truly Yours

Cussonneau

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Hello,

Thanks to Vétéran for his first rate summary about the Sardinian AVM awarded to the French forces for Crimea and Italy campaigns.

Concerning the navy medal, I have only listed 22 such medals awarded to the French navy , but yours is the only one with an attribution to the Vauban I have ever seen.

This war ship belonged to the siege fleet under admiral Bouët Willaumez's command, eligible for the French Italy commemorative medal, for service between May 3rd and July 8th 1859.It was a paddle frigate, launched 1845 at Lorient, engaged in the Baltic and Crimea campaigns, and in Italy under C.V. Coupvent-Desbois' command.

(Curiously, she was sunk, March 23rd 1866 by an experimental mine in Toulon harbour). (From Jacques Vichot, répertoire des navires de guerre français, 1967).

1.000 AVM could have been awarded to the French navy for this campaign.

''Chamouillé'' 's name is noticed in the files of the 9th artillery regiment, with the awarding of the AVM medal :

s2d2lt.jpg

I have in my collection this second AVM to the 9th R.A., with a nice engraving and a particular ornamental scroll above the attribution.

29opp51.jpg

It would be of interest to make a comparison with your medal : could you please post a scan or a photograph of it ? (I use myself : http://tinypic.com/ : very simple to utilize).

About the ''Turcos'' regiment, the Sardinians give : four crosses of the military order of Savoy ; three knight of the Saints Maurice and Lazare order ;

And 114 AVM, awarded to :

13 commissioned officers, (included four ''natives'') ;

57 NCO, included 29 Natives ;

And 44 Tirailleurs, (5 French and 39 Natives).

Truly Yours

Cussonneau

Hi Cussonneau

What a fantastic surprise :speechless1: that you have the names on file for the 9th Artillery Regiment. Very exciting :jumping::jumping: to see Chamouille recorded in the log. By chance do you have records that would state Chamouille's actions for receiving the AVM. Any idea what the average amount of AVM's that were awarded for each warship that participated in the campaign? Do all Naval AVM's have the recipients ship inscribed? I do not own this medal just wanting some info on it that had been listed in a recent auction. If I had known the importance of the dedication I'd have tried a lot harder to have obtained it. I was also surprised by the warship itself. Interesting the ship was part paddle and part sail that was adopted by the military. I suppose some ships that received the AVM are more desirable then others by the actions that took place what type of warship and how many were awarded to each crew. Or are all Naval AVM's equally rare? How neat to see another AVM to the 9th Artillery Regiment :cheers: My reverse also has the exact star burst (Scroll) that you desribed. At first I thought it was just the engravers happy touch now I'm thinking this design was issued to all the AVM's of the regiment. Or was this star burst design on many campaign medals. Or just the signature of a particular engraver? Many thanks for that great research. Thanks for the break down of awards to the Turcos. The early Savoy orders are very delicate and rare....

Sincerely

Brian

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Hello

Thank you very much for the picture.

To my knowledge it is the regiment only one whose medals carry this star burst on reverse.

Such Valore Militare 1859 artillery medals were privately but regimentely engraved.

For the boat here is a french naval roll for 1859:

256xyk3.jpg

304 seamen and 20 gun

Regards

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  • 9 months later...

Hello Yankee,

congratulation for your very nice medal,

Tuillier was "sous-lieutenant" (junior lieutenant in english? it is the rank before lieutenant and capitaine in the french army) in the "72e régiment d'infanterie de ligne" (72th line regiment infantry)

here you will can find a topic on the 72e régiment d'infanterie de ligne

http://fr.wikipedia....nterie_de_ligne

the 72nd lost 25 officers and 626 NCOs and soldiers during the campaign of Italia in 1859.

The 72e was in Algerie between 1854 and 1859, after, he came in Italia in 1859 to participate at the battle of Solferino.

The soldiers of the 72e come from Picardie (a nice country of France :jumping:),

A 72e régiment d'infanterie de marine exist also, but it is not the same unit (naval infantry)

bye,

bonne soirée,

André

PS: a short history of the french infantry regiments,

http://www.military-photos.com/histori5.htm

(sorry it is in french)

Edited by André G.
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Hello Yankee,

congratulation for your very nice medal,

Tuillier was "sous-lieutenant" (junior lieutenant in english? it is the rank before lieutenant and capitaine in the french army) in the "72e régiment d'infanterie de ligne" (72th line regiment infantry)

here you will can find a topic on the 72e régiment d'infanterie de ligne

http://fr.wikipedia....nterie_de_ligne

the 72nd lost 25 officers and 626 NCOs and soldiers during the campaign of Italia in 1859.

The 72e was in Algerie between 1854 and 1859, after, he came in Italia in 1859 to participate at the battle of Solferino.

The soldiers of the 72e come from Picardie (a nice country of France :jumping:),

A 72e régiment d'infanterie de marine exist also, but it is not the same unit (naval infantry)

bye,

bonne soirée,

André

PS: a short history of the french infantry regiments,

http://www.military-photos.com/histori5.htm

(sorry it is in french)

Hi Andre

Thanks for informing me which battle he ( regiment ) participated in to receive his AVM. Glade you made me aware that Tuillier was his rank and not his name. :cheers: I had just assumed that was his last name since MR was addressed in front. On the second line thinking LAURENT was his first name. So it turns out that LAURENT is his last name. His rank Tuillier & S.Lieutenant is both inscribed on the reverse which is a bit confusing or is that normal practice? Thanks for directing me to the sites. Took the wrong second language in school.

Sincerely

Brian

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Hello Yankee,

congratulation for your very nice medal,

Tuillier was "sous-lieutenant" (junior lieutenant in english? it is the rank before lieutenant and capitaine in the french army) in the "72e régiment d'infanterie de ligne" (72th line regiment infantry)

here you will can find a topic on the 72e régiment d'infanterie de ligne

http://fr.wikipedia....nterie_de_ligne

the 72nd lost 25 officers and 626 NCOs and soldiers during the campaign of Italia in 1859.

The 72e was in Algerie between 1854 and 1859, after, he came in Italia in 1859 to participate at the battle of Solferino.

The soldiers of the 72e come from Picardie (a nice country of France :jumping:),

A 72e régiment d'infanterie de marine exist also, but it is not the same unit (naval infantry)

bye,

bonne soirée,

André

PS: a short history of the french infantry regiments,

http://www.military-photos.com/histori5.htm

(sorry it is in french)

Hi Andre

Please disregard my questions on rank, your explaination was fine, I just didn't think clearly. Thats what happens not having enough sleep & trying to do to many things at once :speechless:

Sincerely

Brian

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Hello,

Difficult to give an opinion on this medal with this ''soft-focus effect'' that prevents me from reading the attribution.

I had, quite recently, a glance on a corresponding AVM (this piece?), offered on auction on the net, with the very unusual mention of two units : a guard regiment and a line infantry : I had (rapidly) considered it as a - bad and absurd - fake - and I go away.

I was wrong !!! (more often than not).

The mention of the ''3EB (?) GRENRS'' is not the 3rd grenadiers regiment of the imperial guard : this refers to elite troopers in the bosom of the 72nd regiment, named grenadiers and voltigeurs - (other ordinary troopers are named ''fusiliers'').

I see your medal as authentic on account of ... the upper and the lower bars that frame the engraved attribution on the reverse !

Just because I have an AVM attributed to : / ______ / BOURRIE / SERG T MAJOR / AU / 72E DE LIGNE / ______ / with the same two bars.

91b7k5.jpg

(Mention of ''MONSIEUR'' TUILLIER is nevertheless surprising).

A better photograph and a glance on the obverse will be welcomed).

Laurent Tuillier was born September 7th 1829 at Narp (now in Pyrénées Atlantique), and was commissioned ''sous-lieutenant'' August 12th 1857, aged 28. (He was evidently a NCO before, but I have no information on him).

He was awarded the AVM at the occasion of the Italian campaign 1859, in the 72th regiment (total for this regiment : 119 AVM).

He was promoted lieutenant on September 8th 1861, and I have found him in the ''Foreign Legion'' (Régiment Etranger) in 1864. He was in Mexico and was awarded with the knight of ND Guadaloupe under Maximilian (award accepted July 4th 1866).

Promoted captain April 5th 1865, and awarded knight of the Légion d'honneur before 1866. In 1866 he was transferred in the 2nd régiment de tirailleurs algériens in Mostaganem (Algeria). Chef de bataillon October 10th 1871. Officier LH.

That's all I know about him.

Regards.

Michel

Edited by CUSSONNEAU
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Hello,

Difficult to give an opinion on this medal with this ''soft-focus effect'' that prevents me from reading the attribution.

I had, quite recently, a glance on a corresponding AVM (this piece?), offered on auction on the net, with the very unusual mention of two units : a guard regiment and a line infantry : I had (rapidly) considered it as a - bad and absurd - fake - and I go away.

I was wrong !!! (more often than not).

The mention of the ''3EB (?) GRENRS'' is not the 3rd grenadiers regiment of the imperial guard : this refers to elite troopers in the bosom of the 72nd regiment, named grenadiers and voltigeurs - (other ordinary troopers are named ''fusiliers'').

I see your medal as authentic on account of ... the upper and the lower bars that frame the engraved attribution on the reverse !

Just because I have an AVM attributed to : / ______ / BOURRIE / SERG T MAJOR / AU / 72E DE LIGNE / ______ / with the same two bars.

91b7k5.jpg

(Mention of ''MONSIEUR'' TUILLIER is nevertheless surprising).

A better photograph and a glance on the obverse will be welcomed).

Laurent Tuillier was born September 7th 1829 at Narp (now in Pyrénées Atlantique), and was commissioned ''sous-lieutenant'' August 12th 1857, aged 28. (He was evidently a NCO before, but I have no information on him).

He was awarded the AVM at the occasion of the Italian campaign 1859, in the 72th regiment (total for this regiment : 119 AVM).

He was promoted lieutenant on September 8th 1861, and I have found him in the ''Foreign Legion'' (Régiment Etranger) in 1864. He was in Mexico and was awarded with the knight of ND Guadaloupe under Maximilian (award accepted July 4th 1866).

Promoted captain April 5th 1865, and awarded knight of the Légion d'honneur before 1866. In 1866 he was transferred in the 2nd régiment de tirailleurs algériens in Mostaganem (Algeria). Chef de bataillon October 10th 1871. Officier LH.

That's all I know about him.

Regards.

Michel

Hi Michel

The research you had provided me on Laurent Tuillier is just a fantastic wealth of info :cheers: What an amazing career he had, being present at key areas of conflict during that tumultuous time in history. Fascinating that he joined the Foreign Legion to fight in Mexico especially coming from a line regiment. Or was that a common practice to take leave of absence from the regular army & make an adventure to Mexico and join the Legion? He certainly was a very brave man.

I also thought it a bit unusual to have Monsieur addressed, suppose one of the reasons why I liked the medal it made it a bit more personal. There were some nice AVM's to be sure, this was the only one I noticed inscribed on a Batalion level which I thought most interesting. Perhaps he was very proud of being in the Grenadiers, since their was only one to each regiment & made a personal request to the jeweler to be included. I too at first was thinking of the Guards when I saw GREN RS but then was informed it was short for Grenadiers. Also noticed the line above and below the inscription, :jumping: great you have one also to the same regiment. Interesting that engraver's trademark for the 72 regiment are the two bars....

Thanks for describing the other awards he had received. Any chance that he might have also received the Emperor Maximilian Military Merit Medal? Or the answer for that would be either in Mexico City or Vienna State Archives.

The reason why I like AVM's are the lack of fakes out there compared to German States or am I wrong and need to be really careful with elite units & just how good are the fakes? Are the forgers using real blank AVM's or are the AVM's cast & electro plate copies? The piece did come from a fine auction firm that can be viewed over the net. Maybe this is the same piece I don't know there are two inscriptions one on the Bat level for GREN other Reg level. Thanks for confirming that MR Tuillier was with the 72nd. Ahhh you must have an amazing research library. Again appreciate your time & helpfulness.

Most Sincerely

Brian

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Hello Brian,

Great thanks for the two photographs : this medal is definitely genuine for me ( the attribution is quite odd but the AVM attributed to BOURRIE is also atypical, with the two bars and the mention '' AU '' 72E DE LIGNE in spite of 72E DE LIGNE without "AU'' ; (I have only seen such an attribution to the 1er régiment étranger - and the unique medal to the 63ème de ligne).

A little correction : Tuillier has not left his regiment to subscribe an engagement in the foreign legion : he was simply transferred to this unit just as any other infantry regiment ; also, among the French expeditionary corps in Mexico (at the difference from Belgian and Austrians), only NCO and troopers received the silver military merit medal. Commissioned officers were awarded with ND Guadalupe (and Eagle) except five French officers who received the bronze Al Merito Militar, corresponding to an imperial mention.

(I don't know about German fakes, but, alas, the fakes in AVM are numerous! )banger.gif

Regards

Michel.

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Hello Brian,

Great thanks for the two photographs : this medal is definitely genuine for me ( the attribution is quite odd but the AVM attributed to BOURRIE is also atypical, with the two bars and the mention '' AU '' 72E DE LIGNE in spite of 72E DE LIGNE without "AU'' ; (I have only seen such an attribution to the 1er régiment étranger - and the unique medal to the 63ème de ligne).

A little correction : Tuillier has not left his regiment to subscribe an engagement in the foreign legion : he was simply transferred to this unit just as any other infantry regiment ; also, among the French expeditionary corps in Mexico (at the difference from Belgian and Austrians), only NCO and troopers received the silver military merit medal. Commissioned officers were awarded with ND Guadalupe (and Eagle) except five French officers who received the bronze Al Merito Militar, corresponding to an imperial mention.

(I don't know about German fakes, but, alas, the fakes in AVM are numerous! )banger.gif

Regards

Michel.

Hi Michel

Many thanks for kindly correcting me, always appreciate learning something new every day.

As I understand in the Legion most of the soldiers were foreigners and usually the officers would be French. Because this was a crack regiment I suppose an officer's transfer into the unit would be an honor especially if he was assigned. I was thinking he volunteered for the Mexican adventure since a good many were in need for the service of Maximilian :speechless: Shocked :speechless1: to learn the Legion suffered nearly two thousand casualties in the Mexican campaign. Those Mexican Eagle orders are super scarce unfortunately :angry: there are some later made pieces that you have to watch out for.

Sincerely

Brian

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