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Hi Jan Arne

I would agree it looks like a Lüdenscheid design. The interesting thing for me is the finish. This bright gilt which many people would think is because of postwar "restoration" can be found on original mint condition badges by Funcke & Brüninghaus - also from Lüdenscheid.

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Indeed a interesting maker for KM Badges , Gordon !

I think to many "experts" ar not willing to look at other makers then the Makers they know about

on searten Badges .

And for me the Destroyer is not refinished !

Jan Arne

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Indeed a interesting maker for KM Badges , Gordon !

I think to many "experts" ar not willing to look at other makers then the Makers they know about

on searten Badges .

And for me the Destroyer is not refinished !

Jan Arne

Hi Guys,

Here's another zincer in the same design, but with a flat back instead of dish back and not as nice as Jan Arne's. Same design as the G.W.L. tombak badge which Gordon previously showed may have been used by Deumer (or at least by another Lüdenscheid producer) as well. It has the same hardware as Jan Arne's and the hardware is gilt as well.

So the Lüdenscheid connection certainly seems likely. But who owned the master die? (I guess just a rhetorical question at this time!)

Best regards,

---Norm

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Another fabulous posting. Thanks very much Gordon!

Two questions:

1) Is that a waffle-head hinge-pin?

2) Is the flat wire catch in the shape of the rounded "C" or the flat-bottomed "C"?

Best regards,

---Norm

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Hi Norm,

Its a flat bottomed "C" and a plain smooth headed pin.

Thanks Gordon,

There are exceptions but my impression is that generally the dome-head pins correlate with the round-bottomed "C" catch (probably earlier) and the smooth flat-heads or waffle-heads (or no-heads) correlate with the flat-bottomed "C" catches. This seems to apply across the Schwerin badge lines. Has that been your observation as well?

Cheers.

---Norm

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Thanks Gordon,

There are exceptions but my impression is that generally the dome-head pins correlate with the round-bottomed "C" catch (probably earlier) and the smooth flat-heads or waffle-heads (or no-heads) correlate with the flat-bottomed "C" catches. This seems to apply across the Schwerin badge lines. Has that been your observation as well?

Cheers.

---Norm

Hi Norm,

According to my observations I'd rather say that round-bottomed "C" catch is in fact correlated with dome-head hinge pins but later (zincer-like) flat-bottomed "C" catches could be met with all types of hinge pin heads and situated on both sides of the hinge. This is at least true in Schwerin's minesweeper line.

Cheers,

Hubert

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Hi Norm,

According to my observations I'd rather say that round-bottomed "C" catch is in fact correlated with dome-head hinge pins but later (zincer-like) flat-bottomed "C" catches could be met with all types of hinge pin heads and situated on both sides of the hinge. This is at least true in Schwerin's minesweeper line.

Cheers,

Hubert

Hi Hubert,

Sounds good. Is it not also fair to say that the flat-bottomed "C" catches are much less commonly paired with dome-head hinge pins than with flat-heads?

---Norm

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Hi Hubert,

Sounds good. Is it not also fair to say that the flat-bottomed "C" catches are much less commonly paired with dome-head hinge pins than with flat-heads?

---Norm

Hi Norm,

I would tend to say the opposite - flat-headed hinge pin, with or without crosshatching, or simply 'beheaded' paired with flat-bottomed "C" catches are still less common. But this is mu subjective opinion, might be wrong.

Cheers,

Hubert

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Hi Norm,

I would tend to say the opposite - flat-headed hinge pin, with or without crosshatching, or simply 'beheaded' paired with flat-bottomed "C" catches are still less common. But this is mu subjective opinion, might be wrong.

Cheers,

Hubert

Hi Hubert,

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the flat-bottomed "C" catches are more common than the round-bottomed "C" catches (quite the opposite since round "C"s predominate and therefore so do dome-head hinge pins); I was suggesting that within the sub-category of badges with flat-bottomed "C" catches, the dome-head hinge pins are less common than flat/waffle/beheaded collectively. But as you say, it's subjective without collecting a large series so I too could be wrong.

Regards,

---Norm

Edited by Norm F

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Hi Hubert,

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the flat-bottomed "C" catches are more common than the round-bottomed "C" catches (quite the opposite since round "C"s predominate and therefore so do dome-head hinge pins); I was suggesting that within the sub-category of badges with flat-bottomed "C" catches, the dome-head hinge pins are less common than flat/waffle/beheaded collectively. But as you say, it's subjective without collecting a large series so I too could be wrong.

Regards,

---Norm

Hi Norm,

Sorry, I was not precise enough. In my previous post I was refering only to flat-bottomed "C" catches subcategory, and agree that in this case it's very hard to tell individualy without a risk of being wrong. Only a number of individual opinions may secure its correctness or long years in this hobby which I lack, unfortunately.

Here is another opinion from Mike's great article:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumgeo/Schwerin-Article-Sectioned/7HingePinCatch/Schwerin_HSF-HingePinCatch.htm

Cheers,

Hubert

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Here is another opinion from Mike's great article:

http://members.iinet...ngePinCatch.htm

Cheers,

Hubert

In Mike's article on the Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen you see just we expect the statistics to suggest -- i.e. dome-head hinge pin associated with the round-bottomed "C", and flat or no-head hinge pins associated with the flat-bottomed "C".

There are probably a few flat-bottomed "C"s out there somewhere paired with leftover dome-headed hinge pins (and I think somewhere I may have seen a minesweeper like that), but I expect them to be the exception rather than the rule. You and I will just have to keep track of all the badges we see with attention to this detail!:beer:

Best regards,

---Norm

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In Mike's article on the Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen you see just we expect the statistics to suggest -- i.e. dome-head hinge pin associated with the round-bottomed "C", and flat or no-head hinge pins associated with the flat-bottomed "C".

There are probably a few flat-bottomed "C"s out there somewhere paired with leftover dome-headed hinge pins (and I think somewhere I may have seen a minesweeper like that), but I expect them to be the exception rather than the rule. You and I will just have to keep track of all the badges we see with attention to this detail!:beer:

Best regards,

---Norm

Hi Norm,

Agree, it is very resonable explanation :beer:

In my database I have two examples of minesweepers with flat-bottomed "C"s paired with dome-headed hinge pins.

I'll try to post the pics.

Cheers,

Hubert

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More pics - second one.

Hi Hubert,

Please show the obverse of that last one. It looks like a beauty!

Best regards,

---Norm

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http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2011/post-10680-0-89844800-1296325414.jpgobverse from an angle

Edited by Bubba_Z

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and the last pic - the http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2011/post-10680-0-56273600-1296325863.jpghinge.

Cheers,

Hubert

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