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Hello to all!

I am new to the club, so this is my first post. So, here it goes.

I am trying to find information on this medal bar. Because of the non-combatant nature of the bar and the medals on it, I think I can safely assume that it was issued to a chaplain (but I am not sure). It appears that this chaplain served from the around the turn of the century through WWI.

My questions center on the Cross for the Jerusalem Pilgrims in bronze (I believe that is what it is). I had seen other posts about this, but they have not addressed the issue of the Cross for the Jerusalem Pilgrims on a military medal bar.

I have seen information that states that the Cross for the Jerusalem Pilgrims is only a medal issued by the church and does not have any military significance. And, I have seen information were the cross has been issued to military people based on their rank.

Is there a written procedure for a German to be able to put this cross on a medal bar? Or was the cross just added to the medal bar by the wearer?

Also, is this bar traceable?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Dean

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I'm afraid your scans are too small to be helpful. I couldn't even guess whether it is an original bar or not from images so small. Flat bottomed bars were certainly an uncommon style made during the period, but the market is being flooded with them these days as easier to churn out than the "bow-bottomed" ones by the unskilled slave labor mass producing them for the scum of the earth.

The combination, from what I can see, suggests a military official (Beamter)--

the 1897 Centenary Medal indicates active service in March of that year, while the Red Eagle Order 4th Class suggests someone of "Major"-equivalence before the war. NOT an officer, since military officials were not eligible for the XXV Years Service Cross--absent here-- until after 1918. The noncombatant Iron Cross and War Effort Cross both also indicate someone in an administrative function, most likley in the Prussian army. The maker's tag might at least indicate a city where he was serving--though Berlin would be hopeless with so many military departments there.

The Vatican's pilgims' cross was accepted as a foreign "state" award for wear--

the problem is, no Prussian (or navy) Rank List ever SHOWED them. :banger: There would be no way to pick this person out from anyone else of a similar level and similar job with the purely Prussian awards. They WERE listed in other sources, but pre-war you'd already have to know the recipient's name to find him.

Assuming the bar is original, you have to settle for an extremely rare combination of awards. Any "white black" Iron Cross mounted in a group is a prize.

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Rick,

Thank you for the information.

I am new at posting pictures, but I will work on getting more detailed pics for the post. Can you explain in more detail the difference between flat-bottomed and bow-bottomed bars?

Your information is very helpful.

Dean

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Normal Prussian mounting style had a half circle of the furled ribbon drape sewn bunched together behind the awards in back like a fat "U" shape, probably intended to protect awards from rubbing and jangling. There is nothing "wrong" with flat bottoms-- but they were far more common in Bavaria (where medals were unclipped and the ribbons worn as large ribbon bars) than in Prussia. Flat bottoms are the short cut of choice for the Frankensteins out there now though, so caution even more than usual is required-- like blacklighting the ribbons anyway.

IS that indeed the PILGRIMS' Cross (obverse: "Leo XIII P.M. creavit An. MCM," reverse "Signum Sacri Iteniris Hierosol" with "Amor Crucifixi Traxit Nos" on the arms) or is it the Cross "PRO ECCLESIA ET PONTIFICE" which has that on back and "Leo XIII P.M. Anno X" on the obverse center? The latter Cross IS shown in Rank Lists...

elder moments here since my Vatican references are of the hideously lumpish "modern" things that Paul VI replaced the old traditional designs with-- all of which alas look like rejects from kiddies' pottery classes.

Have had a quick look and did not turn up anyone with Red Eagle 4 and "PK" (the Rank Lists abbreviation for the "Pro Ecclesia" Cross) BUT Rank Lists segregated most administrative officials to their own Lists and I don't have any of those from before the world war.

IF this is a good medal bar it must be a pre-war Cross, since absence of any long service award would seem to date this medal bar to pre-1920.

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