Bavarian Fire Service

[Signalcorps45]

Hello to all!

I am looking for information on this medal bar. The ribbons on the bar are almost half the size of a normal ribbons. The medals seem to be normal size.

I quess I am trying to find out the story behind this bar.

Any information would be helpful.

Dean

[Signalcorps45]

[Signalcorps45]

[Guest Rick Research]

Just a thrifty (Cheap ) Bavarian.

Don't know what metal the "gum drop" is made out of, but shiny and silver looking suggests NOT the early cast iron horrors, so either the 1922-28 zinky version or the 1928-36 "argentan" alloy one--design remained the same, just varied in quality of the manufacture. The ribbon indicates volunteer fire service rather than professional fireman duty.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Rick Research

[Scott P]

I like anything bavarian, nice 2 piece geussing civilian bar, would still like to have it, not everyone can afford the big bars

Edited December 27, 2009 by Scott P

[Signalcorps45]

Rick and Scott,

I paid I think $30 for this bar, so I didn't think there was a high monetary value to it. I thought it is interesting because, as Scott states, it appeared to be a civilian medal bar. I thought there may be an interesting story behind it.

Rick - I did not know this maybe a volunteer Bavarian fire service medal, thanks for the information.

Dean

[militaria0815]

The Bavarian 25 years long service medal was awarded 360.000 times between 1920 and 1936.

[Signalcorps45]

militaria0815,

Thank you for the info.

Dean

[tyanacek]

Just a thrifty (Cheap ) Bavarian.

Don't know what metal the "gum drop" is made out of, but shiny and silver looking suggests NOT the early cast iron horrors, so either the 1922-28 zinky version or the 1928-36 "argentan" alloy one--design remained the same, just varied in quality of the manufacture. The ribbon indicates volunteer fire service rather than professional fireman duty.

I never realized that the blue & white striped ribbon was an indication of volunteer fire service. Was the crimson-colored ribbon (like seen on the 40-Year Service Medal below) used for regular/professional fire service?

Best regards,

Tom

[militaria0815]

Red ribbons were for professional fire men. Most bigger towns in Bavaria had professional fire briagdes, in small towns were (semi-) volunteer fire brigades which means that young man had to join these brigades, otherwise they had to pay kind of special tax.

[FireMedals]

Red ribbons were for professional fire men. Most bigger towns in Bavaria had professional fire briagdes, in small towns were (semi-) volunteer fire brigades which means that young man had to join these brigades, otherwise they had to pay kind of special tax.

The idea that the red ribbon on this medal was for career firemen is new to me. I've never seen it in 40 years of collecting fire awards, and even authors, like Gert Efler who wrote the book on German fire awards, puts the grey and white striped ribbon on the 25 year service and the carmine on the 40 year service. With my very limited command of the German language, it also appears the awards were issued for service in fire brigades, without any division between just volunteer or career. Not to sound critical of anyone elses comments, but I would really like to have the source of this for my records.

FireMedals

[speedytop]

Hi,

we have in Bavaria in that time two different oval medals.

1. Feuerwehrehrenzeichen für hervorragende Leistungen (for outstanding performance/excellent achievement)

http://www.feuerwehr...isch/10205.html

2. Feuerwehrehrenzeichen für 25/40jährige Dienstzeit (for long service 25/40 years)

http://www.feuerwehr...isch/10202.html

http://www.feuerwehr...isch/10203.html

For the first medal with the text ""FÜR HERVORRAGENDE LEISTUNGEN IM FEUERWEHR-DIENST" it is correct with the different colours for professionals in red and for volunteers in white and blue.

For the second medal with the text "FÜR 25/40 JÄHRIGE DIENST-ZEIT" it is for the differentiation between 25 (white and blue) and 40 years (red) of service.

Uwe

Edited January 2, 2010 by speedytop

[FireMedals]

Uwe,

Thank you for all that information. This should answer any questions about this award for a long time to come.

FireMedals

[Signalcorps45]

Uwe,

Thank you for your help. Your information should clear up any confusion.

Dean

[tyanacek]

Uwe,

Thank you for all that information. This should answer any questions about this award for a long time to come.

FireMedals

Yes indeed! Thank you, Uwe, for all that great information and the links too. Very informative.

Best regards,

Tom

[Guest Rick Research]

The blue and white striped ribbon is from the original Royal version, the M1884-1918 worn as a brooch similar to the way military long service awards for enlisted ranks were worn at the time. This was given ONLY to volunteer firemen.

See von Hessenthal and Schreiber, "Die tragbaren Ehrenzeichen des Deutschen Reiches." I have the April 1940 edition.

The horrid cast iron "camel droppings" of 1920-22 introduced the red = 40, blue and white = 25

In 1922 the cast iron was replaced by a "war alloy" zink but the design remained the same.

In 1928 the medals were made in much better alloys but still the same horrible design, continuing to be awarded until 1936.

Here is the rack of an ancient volunteer super-hero from Nuremburg circa 1933 or so with ALL the versions being worn among a variety of other decorations for lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng fire service--

Note that he had 25 years of volunteer service in by 1918--M1884 brooch closest to buttons, is wearing THREE of the ghastly camel droppings medals AND a cross with that design in the center mingled with his other awards-- including a Prussian (!) WW1 War Effort Cross near the end of his vast medal bar.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Rick Research

[Signalcorps45]

Rick,

Thank you for providing more information. Nice pic too.

Dean

[speedytop]

Here are three of my medals, see the different helmet style:

Uwe

[Signalcorps45]

speedytop,

It appears that the two sets of medals on the left have a helmet that comes to more of a smooth point in the middle. The 40 year medal has more of gently rolling middle. The 25 year medal I posted looks like it has the same more gently rolling middle, like the 40 year you posted.

Is this due to changes in the medal over the years? Were there specific years for each way?

Dean

[speedytop]

Hi Dean,

the first edition (blackened iron) had been awarded in the period 1920-1922.

My two grey/black medals (patinated zinc) are from the period 1922-1928, second edition.

The other four medals (silvered/gilded) in this thread are from the period 1928-1936, third edition, now with a changed helmet design.

Uwe

[Signalcorps45]

Uwe,

So the medal I have posted was issued between 1928 and 1936. It appears to have the new helmet design.

Thank you for the information, I never noticed the different helmet designs.

Dean

[militaria0815]

There is no proof for a helmet design change in the statues. About half a million medals were made in different materials by different makers. This is the only admissable expalanation one can have for differences in helmet type.

[Signalcorps45]

militaria0815,

That makes sense because of the different manufacturers. Thanks

Dean

[speedytop]

Hi militaria0815,

can you please show us medals, model 1 (blackened iron) and/or model 2 (patinated zinc), with the helmet design shown in Post 1 and 9?

No matter, a temporal delimitation is always possible with the help of the different materials, see Post 20.

Uwe

[militaria0815]

Hi militaria0815,

can you please show us medals, model 1 (blackened iron) and/or model 2 (patinated zinc), with the helmet design shown in Post 1 and 9?

No matter, a temporal delimitation is always possible with the help of the different materials, see Post 20.

Uwe

Uwe, sorry but I have not made pics of all the Bavarian firemen medals I owned in the past.