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Mounted as he wore it......


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That is the classified wireless field model not available to civilians. :ninja:

Actually, I'm surprised MORE CdGs weren't mounted back-to-front with the years showing. :beer:

Would this be a form of "reduced wear" in a fashion statement-- "only wear the important stuff, everybody has the medals" or is a pair like this likely the top row as worn on a civilian suit?

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Would this be a form of "reduced wear" in a fashion statement-- "only wear the important stuff, everybody has the medals" or is a pair like this likely the top row as worn on a civilian suit?

Actually Rick, these might've been all he had at the time.

The inter-allied Victory Medal only came out in 1922.

The French WW1 commemorative medal only came out in 1920.

The Combatant's Cross only came out in 1930.

The Cross for Volunteer Combatant only came out in 1935.

So between 1918 and at least 1920, this is all this man would've had to wear.

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The fact that one had to purchase the medals probably greatly reduced the numbers. My grandfather would have qualified for the Victory, the Commemorative, and probably a British War Medal as a French interpreter attached to the BEF. He doesn't appear to have claimed any of them. ANd if he had delayed taking out British citizenship for a few more months my grandmother would have qualified for the Medaille de la Famille in bronze. :banger:

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  • 2 weeks later...

The fact that one had to purchase the medals probably greatly reduced the numbers. My grandfather would have qualified for the Victory, the Commemorative, and probably a British War Medal as a French interpreter attached to the BEF. He doesn't appear to have claimed any of them. ANd if he had delayed taking out British citizenship for a few more months my grandmother would have qualified for the Medaille de la Famille in bronze. :banger:

Michael

I doubt that your grandfather would have qualified for the BWM; interpreters were members of their national armies and received commemorative medals from their countries. This was one of the basic rules established among the Allied armies.

On the other hand, they did very often receive bravery awards from the Allied armies they were attached to.

The only exceptions were :

British, American and Russian volunteer ambulance units serving directly under French Army command

The Russian Division serving with the French Army on the Western Front after 1917

The Polish Division serving with the French Army under French command

The 1rst Tchecoslovaquian Britande " " "

American airmen serving with Escadrille Lafayette

369th, 370th, 371st & 372nd Infantry Regiments US Expeditionnary Force (these were colored soldiers from the New-York National Guard which were found - by the U.S.Army Command - to be better off under French Command).

Italian airmen serving on the French front. Italian 3rd & 4th Divisions. The Garibaldi Brigade (Italian volunteers serving with the French before Italy entered the war)

Portuguese heavy artillery group serving on the French front.

All these units received the French Commemorative and Victory Medals when they were entitled. They should not have received their national commemmorative and Victory medals.

These details are little known as a rule. Hope this helps.

Regards

Veteran

Edited by Veteran
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Mark well what Veteran tells us. he has probably forgotten more than we ever knew about this subject. And he happens to be a WW2 veteran. Ex-FFI et LE: ex-French Resistance and Foreign Legion. This man, who has received me in his house, has recommended various books - which I have been acquiring - but I wish he would write a reference book...or three...or four...

Not so many WW2 vets on this website...

PK

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Michael

I doubt that your grandfather would have qualified for the BWM; interpreters were members of their national armies and received commemorative medals from their countries. This was one of the basic rules established among the Allied armies.

On the other hand, they did very often receive bravery awards from the Allied armies they were attached to.

The only exceptions were :

British, American and Russian volunteer ambulance units serving directly under French Army command

The Russian Division serving with the French Army on the Western Front after 1917

The Polish Division serving with the French Army under French command

The 1rst Tchecoslovak Brigade " " "

American airmen serving with Escadrille Lafayette

369th, 370th, 371st & 372nd Infantry Regiments US Expeditionnary Force (these were colored soldiers from the New-York National Guard which were found - by the U.S.Army Command - to be better off under French Command).

Italian airmen serving on the French front. Italian 3rd & 4th Divisions. The Garibaldi Brigade (Italian volunteers serving with the French before Italy entered the war)

Portuguese heavy artillery group serving on the French front.

All these units received the French Commemorative and Victory Medals when they were entitled. They should not have received their national commemmorative and Victory medals.

These details are little known as a rule. Hope this helps.

Regards

Veteran

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A little poking about in the National Archives Medal Index Cards has turned up at least these:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=corpname%3dfrench%20army%7cscope%3dinterpreter&catid=10&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*

However on actually looking at the cards, it appears their claims were denied - one actually stating that he was "ineligible for any British medals as he qualified for French awards". It might be interesting to see whether French civilians acting as interpreters received British medals.

Edited by Michael Johnson
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Mark well what Veteran tells us. he has probably forgotten more than we ever knew about this subject. And he happens to be a WW2 veteran. Ex-FFI et LE: ex-French Resistance and Foreign Legion. This man, who has received me in his house, has recommended various books - which I have been acquiring - but I wish he would write a reference book...or three...or four...

I'm working on implanting a USB port in the brain for instant downloads. :speechless:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

I think it is called "a boule" or "ball mount",

If you are lucky you can pick up the odd one at shows, otherwise you can buy new ones from some french companies, they lack the patina of course...

best

Chris

Chris,

thanks. Appreciate the advice.

Regards,

Graham

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It might be interesting to see whether French civilians acting as interpreters received British medals.

I just downloaded the MIC for Ernest Dhumez, French Interpreter. No comments, but no medals are noted, either. So it looks like they didn't get them.

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Hello

Coming back to awards of British war medals to French military personnel acting as interpreters or liaison officers with the British troups during WW1, there probably were two situations :

It is true that French military personnel, even when detached to British units, were awarded the French World War Commemorative Medal and the French Victory Medal. They were NOT ENTITLED to the British War Medal or Victory Medal. Such was the general understanding among the Allies.

On the other hand, British Bravery and Gallantry awards were quite often given to French Liaison or interpreters when the British Command felt they had earned them when they were attached with those Allied units. At HQ level, a number of C.B., D.S.O.and C.M.G.s were awarded. At lower level, it was often a M.C. or a M.M., a M.S.M. or even a D.S.M. Generally unnamed. The R.N. awarded D.C.M.s to a small number of French sailors & ratings, and they were named.

Hope this helps

Veteran

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