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Bonjour,

Do you help me with Ribbon bar ?

- EK-II 1914,

- Preussische Verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe,

- ???,

- ???,

- Hindenburg Kreuz,

- Silisian Eagle 2 kl (???),

- ???,

- Hungarian 1914-1918.

Crdl

Thierry

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Is there something wierd with his left eye? Glass?

Hello

He lost his left eye in 1917, when he was wounded.

Regards

Rudi

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Hello

He lost his left eye in 1917, when he was wounded.

Regards

Rudi

That explains it. I didn't see a wound badge.

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another with DRK Stern, Grosskreuz Italian Krone Order, and unidentified neck awards

crdl

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Going by the ribbon AND medal bar pictures my guess is No.7 is a Red Cross Order ribbon.

Regards

Matt

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What is this neck order?

Matt

Looks like the Lippe Detmold House Order (LH) or Schaumburg-Lippe House Order (SLH) w/o Swords. (Maybe swords on the suspension ring?!?, denoting an earlier wartime awarding of a lower class) :jumping:

Hard to tell from the fuzzy focus, but I think it looks more like the LH. (A beautiful award if I may add a gratuitous comment.)

Edited by Claudius

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Looks like the Lippe Detmold House Order (LH) or Schaumburg-Lippe House Order (SLH) w/o Swords. (Maybe swords on the suspension ring?!?, denoting an earlier wartime awarding of a lower class) :jumping:

Hard to tell from the fuzzy focus, but I think it looks more like the LH. (A beautiful award if I may add a gratuitous comment.)

I would almost say i can see swords... :D

Matt

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For moment, he won :

- EK-II 1914,

- Preussische Verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe,

- Fürstlich Lippische Ehrenkreuz 2. kl,

- EK-I 1914,

- Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914-1918 mit Schwertern,

- Ungarische Ehrenmedaille des Weltkrieges 1914-1918 mit Schwertern,

- Deutsche Olympia Ehrenzeichen 1. kl (1936),

- Goldenes Parteiabzeichen (31 janvier 1937),

- Cavaliere di Gran Croce dell’Ordine della Corona d’Italia,

- Ehrenzeichen des DRK 1. kl mit Halsdekoration u. Bruststern,

- Treudienst Ehrenzeichen 40 jahr (6 juillet 1939),

- Ritterkreuz d. Spanischen Ordens von Joch u. dem Pfeilen (9 février 1941),

- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 13 März 1938,

- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1 Oktober 1938,

- Dienstauszeichnungen d. NSDAP in Bronze.

Thierry

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Statement - to my understanding, the Second Class of the Lippe Honor Cross is a very high award to a Captain - the rank held by Lammers at retirement I believe.

Can one infer that this was a Post War/Abdication bestowal by the House of Lippe? (May be a dumb question as a widely know fact - just not known to me) :speechless:

Can one further infer that the senior member of the house was an ardent NAZI much as was the Duke of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha? (Equally dumb question perhaps)

For moment, he won :

- EK-II 1914,

- Preussische Verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe,

- Fürstlich Lippische Ehrenkreuz 2. kl,

- EK-I 1914,

- Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914-1918 mit Schwertern,

- Ungarische Ehrenmedaille des Weltkrieges 1914-1918 mit Schwertern,

- Deutsche Olympia Ehrenzeichen 1. kl (1936),

- Goldenes Parteiabzeichen (31 janvier 1937),

- Cavaliere di Gran Croce dellOrdine della Corona dItalia,

- Ehrenzeichen des DRK 1. kl mit Halsdekoration u. Bruststern,

- Treudienst Ehrenzeichen 40 jahr (6 juillet 1939),

- Ritterkreuz d. Spanischen Ordens von Joch u. dem Pfeilen (9 février 1941),

- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 13 März 1938,

- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1 Oktober 1938,

- Dienstauszeichnungen d. NSDAP in Bronze.

Thierry

Edited by W McSwiggan

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Statement - to my understanding, the Second Class of the Lippe Honor Cross is a very high award to a Captain - the rank held by Lammers at retirement I believe.

Can one infer that this was a Post War/Abdication bestowal by the House of Lippe? (May be a dumb question as a widely know fact - just not known to me) :speechless:

Can one further infer that the senior member of the house was an ardent NAZI much as was the Duke of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha? (Equally dumb question perhaps)

This had also crossed my mind...it did happen as you say with the Duke of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha. :jumping:

Matt

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Based on a quick check - the reigning Prince (Leopold IV) lived until after the 2nd World War. I am not sure if he was a party member however his three eldest sons were. I suspect that their influence would have been sufficient regardless of Papa's membership to cause Lammers to receive this award.

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For what it is worth, Nimmergut notes in his magnum opus that with the abdication of the prince in 1918,

the Lippe House Order was no longer awarded. Also, he does devote quite a bit of space to the post 1918

Ernestine Order awards by Carl Eduard of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

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For what it is worth, Nimmergut notes in his magnum opus that with the abdication of the prince in 1918,

the Lippe House Order was no longer awarded. Also, he does devote quite a bit of space to the post 1918

Ernestine Order awards by Carl Eduard of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

Bonjour,

Do you have reference of the book.

Crdl

Thierry

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Bonjour,

Do you have reference of the book.

Crdl

Thierry

Hello Thierry,

Yes, I do have the book. Actually, it is a set of five books.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

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Hmmmm...

We seem to have a respected reference and period photographs in conflict!

It comes down to

(1) an error in Nimmergut

(2) an unsanctioned award by one of the princes

(3) or a very naughty OGF Lammers...

My guess is that we will never know!

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Just a thought, The photo with the Lippe decoration has to have been taken before the other ones based upon the collar insignia. Is it a certainty the man with the Lippe Medal is Lammers and not someone else who looks similar? Just curious and perhap[s I am 100% out to lunch.

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Some other info I found. Nothing about Lippe.

Here are some details on Lammers' life and career (sources include several SS-Dienstalterlisten and his SS personnel file on microfilm at the National Archives II, College Park, Maryland).

Best wishes,

~ Mike Miller

<a href=http://www.geocities.com/~orion47>Axis Biographical Research</a>

Dr. jur. Hans Heinrich Lammers

(1879 - 1962)

Reichsminister /

SS-Obergruppenführer /

Hauptmann der Reserve a.D.

Born: 27. May 1879 in Lublinitz / Oberschlesien.

Died: 4. Jan. 1962 in Düsseldorf.

NSDAP-Nr.: 1 010 355

(Joined 1933)

SS-Nr.: 118 401

(Joined 1933)

Promotions:

SS-Obergruppenführer: 20. Apr. 1940

SS-Gruppenführer: 30. Jan. 1938

SS-Brigadeführer: 20. Apr. 1935

SS-Oberführer: 29. Sep. 1933

Hauptmann d.R.:

Oberleutnant d.R.:

Leutnant d.R.:

Career:

Führer des Reichsverbandes Deutscher Verwaltungs-Akademien (Leader of the Reich Association of German Administrative Academies):

Member of the Akademie für Deutsches Recht (Member, Academy of German Law):

Ministerrat für die Reichsverteidigung (Ministerial Councillor for Reich Defense):

30. Nov. 1939 - 1945.

b. Stab RF SS:

(1. Dec. 1937) - Apr. 1945

Reichsminister ohne Portfeuille und Chef der Reichskanzlei (Reich Minister without Portfolio and Chief of the Reich Chancellery):

1937 - 1945.

z.b.V. SS-Oberabschnitt "Ost":

(1. Oct. 1934)

Staatssekretär und Chef der Reichskanzlei (State Secretary and Chief of the Reich Chancellery):

1933 - 1937.

Polizeidezernent:

1933.

Member of the Stahlhelm Bund:

1923 - 1933

Ministerialrat im Reichsministerium des Innern:

1922 -

Oberregierungsrat in Berlin:

1921 -

World War I service with Infanterie-Regiment 51, B.E. Bataillon 22, and Infanterie-Regiment 51:

Landrichter (county court judge) in Beuthen:

1912 -

Gerichtsassessor in Breslau:

1906 -

Law studies at Universities of Breslau and Heidelberg.

Postwar Prosecution:

Arrested and interned by Allied authorities, 1945. Tried by U.S. Military Tribunal, Nuremberg ("Wilhelmstraße" Case, No. 11); sentenced to 20 years' imprisonment, 11. Apr. 1949. Reduced by Clemency Board to 10 years'. Released from U.S. War Criminals Prison No. 1, Landsberg am Lech, 16. Dec. 1951.

Decorations & Awards:

1914 Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse

1914 Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse

Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. Okt. 1938

Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 13. Mar. 1938

Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen

Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

Landesorden

Goldenes Parteiabzeichen

Deutsche Olympia-Ehrenzeichen 1. Klasse

SS-Dienstauszeichnungen

Ehrendegen des RF SS

Totenkopfring der SS

Granted title of Knight of the Order of Yoke and Arrows and holder of the Grand Cross of the Order (Spain): 1941

Notes:

* Son of a veterinary surgeon.

* Religion: Protestant until 19__, then declared himself "gottgläubig".

* Married on 29. Apr. 1913 to Elfriede Tepel (born 31. Jan. 1894 in Gleiwitz / Oberschlesien. 2 daughters (born 3. Aug. 1914 and 28. May 1918).

* 33 1/3 disabled in World War I.

* A leading advisor to Hitler on legal matters.

* From Jan. 1943, Lammers directed cabinet meetings in the absence of Hitler and, in collaboration with the unscrupulous and powerful Martin Bormann, did much to control access to the Führer. Lammers, Bormann, and Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Keitel comprised a "committee of three" through which all orders signed by Hitler had to pass before they were cleared. Lammers was to become the object of Bormann's intrigues, however, and when he played a role in the telegram from Göring (23. Apr. 1945) informing Hitler that the Reichsmarschall was taking control of Germany, he was ordered arrested.

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For what it is worth, Nimmergut notes in his magnum opus that with the abdication of the prince in 1918,

the Lippe House Order was no longer awarded.

Gentlemen!

:speechless1:

I have been informed by an authority whom I would not dispute in such a matter, that, contrary to the information

that I posted previously (see above) that awards of this order were, in fact, made after 1918.

:whistle:

Although he could not recall any such cases by name at the moment, he did indicate that some are known by name

and that perhaps some Forum members with special interests in Lippe could provide the details.

Calling all Lippe collectors! Researchers!

I apologize for inadvertently adding to the confusion. :blush:

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Calling all Lippe collectors! Researchers!

I apologize for inadvertently adding to the confusion. :blush:

Who is calling me???? :lol:

Of course, Lammers got the Lippe-Detmold house-order 2nd class AFTER 1918...and Mr. Nimmergut had a wrong information.

Lippe-Detmold spent its award (especially the house-order) until 1933, mostly awarded by familiy members of the prince or early supporters of the nationalsocialsts!

The actual prince of Lippe-Detmold has in his private archive an extra awardlist for those late awards.

Attached I´m showing you such a late award (to a member of the prince´s family).

Best regards

Roman

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