Ed_Haynes Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 (edited) Badge #2 went, presumably, to Choibalsan. Edited April 22, 2007 by Ed_Haynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 No one else to try finding what's the "mystery" behind Ed's Sukhbaatar badges ? Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Yes, remarkable silence. Shall await more interest to divulge the secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 So, I would guess the "a" badge is a prototype... Cheers.Ch.I would go with the prototype hypothesis or it may be our worst fear come true a remarkably good fake. Hey Ed, is this a quizzz thingy where he who gets the right answer, wins the order in question "The plot thickens dear Watson " Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 (...) Hey Ed, is this a quizzz thingy where he who gets the right answer, wins the order in question "The plot thickens dear Watson " JanI'm in favor of this. Ed ?Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Right . . . . The "prize" -- a high quality SCAN?Christophe hit the right word: Prototype.Provenance solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Now, pick the differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 (edited) WOOOOOOOOWWWWW That is one nice piece, Ed. With solid provenance to boot.Makes one dream of prototypes of the other orders as well. Now for the differences, let me see, hmmm- no fold on the front of the hat- a more well-fed SB- thicker rounded enamel on the rays- texture on the rays of the gold star- slightly different letters in SB nameThat's a good start I would thinkJan Edited April 23, 2007 by Vatjan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjcp Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 - thicker rounded enamel on the raysdon't forget the slightly lighter colour!!!JCGreat piece Ed!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 SB with SN 114, from a collection in Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Document for SB #114.Awarded to a Russian non-military person on Dec 29, 1955. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Document for SB #114.Awarded to a Russian non-military person on Dec 29, 1955.Would you be willing to share the name of the person? Any more details know about the background of this awarding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 Sorry, as I said - the group is in Russia and the owner did not disclose the name of the recepient. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 Ed the prototype is pretty special.... William! Nice booklet your friend has shared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 (edited) When was the Order of Sukhbaatar instituted? 1945 or 1941? According to Dietrich Herfurth, Yuri Yashnev's site and Megan's site it was 16 May 1941, but according to Ed's classification on page 3 of this topic it is 1945. Edited May 6, 2007 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 (edited) Battushig (p. 23) says ". . . the presidium of the State Lower Assembly decided to create a new supreme state order -- the Order of Sukhbaatar on September 27th 1945." Much as I may respect those other authorities, I take his word for it until someone does more real research. I suspect that 1941 date is from Herfurth, who says many things that cannot be supported. Edited May 6, 2007 by Ed_Haynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 I also tend to believe Battushig is right.If we take a look at the following topic, we can see that Choibalsan wears both his Hero Star and Sukhbaatar as of 1945. All the pre-1945 pictures only show his Hero Star.- Choibalsan award chronology in pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Yes, there is always a problem where someone who has not done the research (and even lacks the basic skills to do that research) says something, it gets quoted, that quote gets requoted (always without attribution, by the way), and the poison of ignorance and misinformation spreads and spreads. If someone (who could read them) had just looked at the records . . . !!When the award rolls become available, many things will be clarified, many "experts" repudiated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Then I think I'd better scamper off & change my dates... Got it from Yuri Yashnev's site, if you are interested in the source of my info. Not sure what his authority was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 (edited) Then I think I'd better scamper off & change my dates... Got it from Yuri Yashnev's site, if you are interested in the source of my info. Not sure what his authority was!My guess is that Yuri lifted from Herfurth or from the Russian translation (and that I think was Herfurth's source too?) of Ц. Tэрбиш, Бнмaу-ын одон, мeдaлЬ aлдaр цол туунийг aнх хуртэгчигд (Ulanbaatar: 1977). Bat used this too, but found it very flawed and needed to consult the records.This is certainly the place where Herfurth lifts many of his images. Edited May 6, 2007 by Ed_Haynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Fascinating. I've just amended my entry to reflect your more accurate information, thank you (yet again!) Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Had a look at my SB's today... there's also a distinct difference between Screwback and Pinback... have a close look at SB's head and the "bulge" on his cheak. Clear way to identify a pin/screwback from the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinf Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 And type 2 :No. 585 is for sale here http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=218936$1695 I believe.Ed can you empty your PM box, I sent you a PM but it does not appear to be reaching you?Regards,Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Thanks for mentioning that, I'd been told about it. Actually I think it is ?1695. From what I have been told, a better scan of the serial number would be nice. Sukhbaatar fakes are now being reported, so some care is needed.Have cleaned PM, have fallen behind on almost everything during final exams, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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