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Although we like to think of the winners of our awards as pure, brave and guys we would like to have a beer with...

Truth is, there are tens of thousands of shites in there amongst them.

It also gets on my goat with this "cult of the veteran" ... so often on our forums people pull out the "I am a veteran, so respect my feelings/accept my views/treat me as a hero" card...

Statistically there are probably MORE a-Holes amongst the veterans out there than there are in the general population, because being a Vet encourages many people to tell B.S. exaggerated stories about their time in the army that noone really wants to hear... and all the civvies sit there saying "does this A-hole think anyone is interested in this!?!?!?!"

Soooooooo.... without further ado.... let me, without any respect to the vet in question, present a small group to a loathsome toady, nazi basterd, lower than pond scum winner of the EK.

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It is a black ribboned EK2 to a non combatant, officers rank but serving in the Occupation Govt in Belgium... Never heard a shot fired, was involved in Library work....

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After the war he was responsible from the German side to help rebuild the stocks of books that were destroyed in the "Kulture" fiasco when the Germans torched Löwen. Apparently he was not tooooo honest in how he did things... donated money being diverted to cronies...

After the war he got this....

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Which is interestig as it seems that they were just mailed out blanko to local authorities who were allowed to award them as they saw fit... His was awarded by the Uni...

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Old Dr. Dick was a Party member (of course) and during the Nazi time was director of libraries in Fankfurt and surrounding areas.

As an expert on valuable books he was on the committee which was responsible for confiscating and administrating valuable property from Jews. (There were art, Book, and a few other specialist).

He would decide what was valuable enough to confiscate and sell outside of Germany.

He was also a prime mover in excluding Jews from public libraries in the area.

Does everyone wearing medals deserve respect? In my opinion.... negative. Some are indeed inglorious basterds.....

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He was also a relative of Nietzsche and was responsible for numerous publications on old Freddy.

He has been described as the man who, responsible for the legacy of Nietzsche, did his very best to twist it to serve the Nazi cause.

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Old Dr. Dick was a Party member (of course) and during the Nazi time was director of libraries in Fankfurt and surrounding areas.

As an expert on valuable books he was on the committee which was responsible for confiscating and administrating valuable property from Jews. (There were art, Book, and a few other specialist).

He would decide what was valuable enough to confiscate and sell outside of Germany.

He was also a prime mover in excluding Jews from public libraries in the area.

Does everyone wearing medals deserve respect? In my opinion.... negative. Some are indeed inglorious basterds.....

Chris,

I believe you pointed out in another post that not every veteran is a hero; some are just bastards. I think your question is a loaded one and from the lack of respondents I'd say no one wants to start something that could end in the thread being locked. How do you NOT go political on such a question?

Are we not allowed to spell "bastard" correctly on the forum or is your spelling a reference to that ridiculous Tarinteno movie? I know I can't write (censored),(censored)or (censored)as they would be politically incorrect. :lol:

REgards

Brian

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I do that occasionally, but not tonight... :shame:

So, that means ... I guess ... that you have been wrong TWICE in this blue moon then. :cheers:

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On a serious note though; considering this librarian received a combatant EK...

Given your research, how common was that? I suspect fairly common.

And given the number of EK's just handed to officers - just for being officers... :rolleyes:

Maybe the EK isn't a particularly worthy decoration after all. :unsure:

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On a serious note though; considering this librarian received a combatant EK...

Given your research, how common was that? I suspect fairly common.

And given the number of EK's just handed to officers - just for being officers... :rolleyes:

Maybe the EK isn't a particularly worthy decoration after all. :unsure:

Hi,

I think it is like that with many medals.... no matter how they sparkle, now matter how famous the wearer, no matter how great the citation....only the guy with it on his chest REALLY knows what he did to deserve it.

I think that the guys with the EK2 that REALLY did something to win it, must have been rather irritated that guys like this got it.

In the case of this guy he got it on a black ribbon because he was outside of Germany, in the occupied zone.

Best

Chris

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Are we not allowed to spell "bastard" correctly on the forum or is your spelling a reference to that ridiculous Tarinteno movie?

I have not seen the movie, but it was the inspiration... :-)

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Really interesting topic Chris. Most of us here grew up with a healthy dose of respect for the medals that individuals wear, hence I think our fascination with them even now. When I think of the IC, I think of men sitting in the trenches of Verdun, Tannenburg, or the Argonne....not sitting in a library. Good work like this SHOULD be recognized I think, but there are other ways to do it, even now.

I remember so many guys taking advantage of the system after the first Storm, and in all the other operations after that. My commander in Dover had two bronze stars for his work in DS, he was a Maj Maintenance officer in charge of heavy back shop maintenance in Saudi -- miles behind the lines.

There was a nurse who showed her Bronze star and talked about being a serious "combat vet", she was stationed in Germany (a loooooong time after WWII)

We had to coordinate extra flights in '96 in Kuwait for the pilots so each of them could get at least one Air Medal (we weren't even carrying ordinance). Some left with two medals after four months.

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Chris, I like the points you bring up concerning the nature of vets. I have personally interviewed many vets over the years, both Allied and Axis, and you're right, a disproportionately high number of them were alcoholics and pathological liars, as well as egomaniacs. I also met some vets who were really outstanding individuals. It is interesting that you bring up the Loewen incident, as I have photos of it taken by my grandfather.

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Chris, I like the points you bring up concerning the nature of vets. I have personally interviewed many vets over the years, both Allied and Axis, and you're right, a disproportionately high number of them were alcoholics and pathological liars, as well as egomaniacs. I also met some vets who were really outstanding individuals. It is interesting that you bring up the Loewen incident, as I have photos of it taken by my grandfather.

Hi

I know, I know....

I am not knocking "Vets" as a group... hell, me be one, but from a different era... but having met 5 German Knights cross winners, only one of them who really was, having been introduced a few times to "this is Bob, he was in the Legion as well..." just to discover he meant to join but forgot, or he was but cant talk about it because it was all secret :whistle:

what gets me is when it is thrown into a thread or real life conversation to establish someones credibility.... Someone says "I was in XXX" and immediately people are doing virtual high fives and trading rounds of virtual butt kissing... and if the guy then says "Lead Schwerin U-Boot badges are real"... there is a chance folks may just believe it...

Anyway, what I am saying is... there are just as many scumbag vets as there are real people. Nowhere in life does the fact that someone wore a uniform make them a better/more moral person.

Its like old people... folks see someone who is 80 and think butter would not melt in their mouths.... who knows if the old guy has 40 years of dead waiflike hitchhikers buried in his back garden....

Age and Uniform... neither are a barometer of someone being a fine upstanding person...

Like this famous sketch...

http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk/travelagent.html

.......

Old Woman:

Yes, answer that, young man, you're so clever!

Old Man:

Ah! Ah! Ah!

Travel Agent:

Because Edinburgh is the only place that has an Edinburgh Festival!

Old Man:

Isn't there one in London?

Travel Agent:

(voice quivering) No there isn't.

Old Man:

Look! Look! Look!

Old Woman:

Look!

Old Man:

I fought in the first world war...

Old Woman:

Yes he did.

Old Man:

Yes...

Old Woman:

And he was wounded...

Old Man:

Yes.

Old Woman:

Had his brain blown out...

Old Man:

Brain blown out...

Travel Agent:

(exasperated, beginning to shriek) That is as may be! Neverthe... (composes himself). Nevertheless, Edinburgh is the only place that has got an Edinburgh Festival

.......

Old Man:

She was wounded in the Second World War! A V2 hit her on the 'ead.

Old Woman:

Right on the 'ead...

Old Man:

Right on the 'ead - look!

Travel Agent:

I don't believe this!

Old Man:

You tell this to the younger generation they'd run you over in their sports cars, thanks we get...

.......

Travel Agent:

Look you stupid old fool..

Old Man:

Oh!

Travel Agent:

(emphasising each word with a thump on the desk) I - can't - shift - Edinburgh!

Old Woman:

Stupid old fool?

Old Man:

There's gratitude...

Old Woman:

He died in the war for people like you...

Old Man:

I did, yes, I did.

Old Woman:

He and Arthur Stoatbridge...

Old Man:

Arthur...

Travel Agent:

Arthur Stoatbridge?!

Old Woman:

HE was a gentleman.

Old Man:

Arthur was. And a murderer...

Old Woman:

He wouldn't have stood for any of your nonsense.

Old Man:

No.

Old Woman:

He would have bitten your throat out.

Old Man:

He would have done. Arthur was a gentleman.

Old Woman:

He was, yes

:rolleyes:

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That reminds me of a reunion of pilots my organization sponsored many years ago, to which a large number of Allied and Axis aircrew showed up. One German guy was wearing a Kette on his lapel with the Knight's Cross, so I asked him if it was indeed the RK. He replied that it was, and that he had won it in KG40 on anti-shipping strikes. I looked into it afterward, and of course he was full of it. Having said that, I've met genuine RK holders who were very humble and never talked about it.

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Another bit of Sliiiiiime... this time with Combat Credentials....

Wounded at Malancourt... which is one of my favorite corners of any battlefield...

I assume French Artillery got him...

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Professor of medicine at the Berlin University, had a special Outpatients clinic for children in Berlin, attached to the Charite Hospital...

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