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Hi Mike, what is your thought of the last badge shown?

thanks

Hi Don,

I think the AWS is quite believable. The details are very good and the owner stated in the WAF thread that he thought it was die struck. I have noted though that it is exactly the same type as Rick posted at the top of the thread - and different to the type I have (so disregard that part of my reply in Post#2!). Gor's comment in Post#20 is of serious concern if he is implying that they are currently being made in Russia though - I'm not sure if something is being lost in translation though.

I've been going over the various types types again. My type is actually like the example Dan posted images of (without the eyes and top bone adjacent to the skull cut out though). Different hinge/pin/catch as well. Both appaer to be marked for silver content behind the right tank gun though - hence the unusual obverse "squashed" appearance of the gun. For what it's worth, I believe my example to be die struck. It does not image well because it is uncleaned - the patina makes the details look "rough" when in fact they are not. There is a story behind it, but not documented and not German veteran related - therefore irrelevant. Do I believe it is 100% genuine (pre-45) - NO, but it is imo believable based on construction and hinge/pin/catch and there's a good chance that it's at least of 1930s construction. For what it's worth, I've seen other badges with this obverse design certified by some of the bigger German dealers (Niemann included).

It represents one of only two imo believable types with the "incuse relief" tank guns and artillery bursts - the "AWS" being the other type (although similar, the wreaths, skulls and artillery burst "berries" are some ways of distinguishing the two types). There are other believable cliques of the type Robin has imaged.

The one example is still definitely do not like in this thread is that raybacked Juncker example with the crown marking and reverse which looks like it was lifted from a differently shaped (?Pilot's) badge. All the other look good but remain questionable (mine included).

Regards

Mike

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  • 5 months later...

Here is a badge and cigarette case which I picked up some time ago when I visited a German dealer. I never realised the badges were so controversial!! I often wonder how accurate the "awarded figures" really are. We are told that only 100 were awarded, but how reliable is this figure?

Anyway, here are the items. The badge is marked with Meybauer's logo and I think that the pin is typical Meybauer also. The case is marked with the owner's name "Paul Meyer".

Stan

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Hallo Gentlemen :beer:

just as a matter of interest, are the figures for the strength of the German Tank Units known, and if so does the Unit history relate how many tanks and crews served in them in the combat zones. And am I right in presuming the tank insignia was only supposed to be awarded to officers and men who saw actual combat??

Please excuse my ignorance on this subject :blush:

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

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I just got back from a quick trip to Texas and on my flights I read a book I picked from ebay on the German A7V Tank, and the captured British Mark IV Tanks of WW1. 240 glorious pages of technical, developmental, and employment details. The operational deployment details are really worth noting. For instance: 20 AV7s saw combat on the Western Front. Each had a crew of 18. (20 x 18= 360) 60 Captured Mark IV saw combat. Each had a crew of 12 personell. (60 x 12= 720) So we have potentially 1080 personell elegible for the Kampfwagonabzeichen. If you assume 30% casualties, 30% people rotating out to other assignments or missing actions for various reasons you still have 432 people theoretically elegible for the badge. The book quotes the 100 number but the more I look at it that seems to be a nice round arbitrary figure. Perhaps it was the number of former tankers on active duty at the time the badge was instituted. Just a thought.

Another interesting thing worth noting is that in several photos members of the tank crews are seen wearing the Machinegunners Sharpshooter Badge. Obviously the course taught machinegun skills that were thought to be critical enough to send some tankers to.

Authors: Hundleby & Strasheim

Published in 1990

ISBN: 0-85429-788-X

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I just got back from a quick trip to Texas and on my flights I read a book I picked from ebay on the German A7V Tank, and the captured British Mark IV Tanks of WW1. 240 glorious pages of technical, developmental, and employment details. The operational deployment details are really worth noting. For instance: 20 AV7s saw combat on the Western Front. Each had a crew of 18. (20 x 18= 360) 60 Captured Mark IV saw combat. Each had a crew of 12 personell. (60 x 12= 720) So we have potentially 1080 personell elegible for the Kampfwagonabzeichen. If you assume 30% casualties, 30% people rotating out to other assignments or missing actions for various reasons you still have 432 people theoretically elegible for the badge. The book quotes the 100 number but the more I look at it that seems to be a nice round arbitrary figure. Perhaps it was the number of former tankers on active duty at the time the badge was instituted. Just a thought.

Another interesting thing worth noting is that in several photos members of the tank crews are seen wearing the Machinegunners Sharpshooter Badge. Obviously the course taught machinegun skills that were thought to be critical enough to send some tankers to.

Authors: Hundleby & Strasheim

Published in 1990

ISBN: 0-85429-788-X

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  • 4 weeks later...

The reverse.

I'd give my dog's left nut for one of those but the Vet already took 'm...

Really, I'd like to have a nice example but I wouldn't pay premium as I know the likelyhood of buying a real one is less than 1 in a million. But. :rolleyes: I have bad luck..

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