Boxer Rebellion medal question

[taquito22]

Hello all,

Can someone give me some advice as to how much a Boxer Rebellion medal with original box should go for? thanks

[Dieter3]

It really depends on condition. Obviously, nicer items fetch more money! Do you have a picture? Based on data that I have collected, I could give you some idea of what the "going price" might be for a piece of given condition. Over the past year, the highest price I have seen was ¥40,500 with a case, and overall in good condition. The NICEST one I have seen, case and in very good(-) condition went for ¥36,000. The absolute worst one I observed went for $214.50 and was in poor(-) condition, with case. The CHEAPEST one I saw went for ¥13,000 - Fair(-) condition, no case. They are all over the map really. I've not averaged the data yet (I'll be presenting a year's worth of data soon!!) - but by eyeballing it, I'd have to say $250-$350 on the average, that's a a big spread. I have yet to see one that meets my criteria of Very Good or better, but I am very tough on grading pieces. Post a pic. if you have one you're selling or are interested in, and I can compare it to my data. Hope this helps.

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello all,

Can someone give me some advice as to how much a Boxer Rebellion medal with original box should go for? thanks

Hi taquito22,

I hope you will be bidding $10.00 less than I do.

These are very expensive and there is one on eBay at the moment that, if I remember, is currently around $160.00 U.S. and the reserve had yet to be reached.

If this is the one you are thinking about, good luck, I know it will be too rich for my blood.

Regards

Brian

[taquito22]

thanks for your reponse and information. Here is a picture of the medal with box:

[taquito22]

Brian,

Yes, it is the same one. I'm with you though, I think it will be a little over my price range....but I definately don't want to overpay either....Good luck!

Edited May 20, 2010 by taquito22

[Dieter3]

One thing, value is totally what one is willing to pay; highly subjective as is condition. This seller calls this an "excellent" example. Relative to many others I have seen, it is a good example for sure. Excellent? I personally don't think so. Again, this is where the subjectivity comes into play - based on (my) set criteria, I rate this as a Fair(+) piece overall. It has a moderate amount of soiling, some obvious staining, and fade, loss of luster. There is some wear to it, but it remains intact with no visible holes or abrasions. The medallion and metals are nice with the typical patina and a few minor bits of corrosion. The case has some light marks and such, but the interior looks nice - these are often faded. The gold writing is nice and the case is intact according to the seller.

Yes, yes, of course one can make the claim it's good for its age - but when you can find specimens of equal age in much better condition, is that a fair statement? (Should age really play into descriptive condition? I don't think so.)

But does all this really matter? NO! It boils down to what YOU are happy with and willing to pay for that level of happiness! You should contact the seller and just inquire about the reserve, see if it's even within your range. A lot of sellers WILL divulge if you ask them.

My guess is simply based on observations, this will grab between $325-$375 (place yer bets!). But I've been really surprised to see nice pieces (in general, not necessarily Boxer medals) go for stupidly low prices and total pieces of junk go for eye-opener prices. Clearly, the direction the wind blows has some bearing. Hey, if I was swimming in money I'd buy it just to buy it! But I'm just gonna sit tight and wait for a really "nice" one to come along (hope!) and get something I really like given limited funds and space, I'll probably only get ONE of these. These aren't exactly like the China Incident medal!

[Paul L Murphy]

If this goes for less than $400 then you have got a bargain. $500 + would be a fair estimate of price. These have come down a lot thanks to the internet, I remember when I could sell these on ebay (8 years ago) for nearly $1,000 !

Edited May 20, 2010 by Paul L Murphy

[Dieter3]

One thing I've definitely learned is not be surprised by anything in this hobby!! I certainly would not be if this piece fetched well over $500.00!!! I'm merely guesstimating based on data collection of just the past year. And I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth that price - value is simply what somebody is willing to pay. God knows I've paid WAY over average costs for things because they met my criteria, where cost tends to be secondary. Unless I'm broke, like now.

[Brian Wolfe]

Not matter what area you collect there will always be those medals that you just have to dream of having. I can think of an India General Service Medal with the Waziristan 1925 clasp that tops my, "When I win the lottery" list.

Regards

Brian

[Dieter3]

Not matter what area you collect there will always be those medals that you just have to dream of having.

My problem is there are simply too many of those!!

[Dieter3]

One thing I've definitely learned is not be surprised by anything in this hobby!! I certainly would not be if this piece fetched well over $500.00!!! I'm merely guesstimating based on data collection of just the past year. And I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth that price - value is simply what somebody is willing to pay.

And here is proof to all of this! A rather unexceptional Russo-Japan War medal - final price = $96.00!! Am I missing something?? These bidders all had low feedback numbers - the winner had 0 - either this fellow knows something I don't, or they are suffering from serious impulse buying?? Good on that seller!

TAQUITO - my apologies - I did not intend to derail your thread!!

Edited May 22, 2010 by Dieter3

[Brian Wolfe]

If this goes for less than $400 then you have got a bargain. $500 + would be a fair estimate of price. These have come down a lot thanks to the internet, I remember when I could sell these on ebay (8 years ago) for nearly $1,000 !

Hi Paul and Dieter3,

Just to wrap this up, it closed at $406.00

I hope this doesn't actually wrap up the topic I was just meaning the question regarding this particular medal.

I don't know if the members are aware of the Boxer Rebellion or not but what an interesting bit of history that I hope everyone will take the time to read about.

Regards

Brian

[Paul L Murphy]

$406 for a cased 1900 War Medal, $96 for a cased Russo-Japanese War Medal

The world has gone crazy in both directions ! I can find you at least twenty cased 1904-05 medals for every cased 1900.

[Brian Wolfe]

Confession time.

I was the winning bidder and I think it would have went higher except the seller will not take Pay Pal. Since this is within Canada (seller in Quebec and I in Ontario) a Postal Money Order is not a problem.

I will say this is an item that was on my "bucket list" (check out the movie) and that's all I'll say on that, so the price was not really a factor.

Given the numbers involved in the boxer rebellion from Japan, 18 Warships, 540 Marines and 20,300 soldiers it is scarcer than many medals. Given the number of Bronze British War Medals (WWI) is at 110,00 the Japanese Boxer Rebellion Medal should be harder to find and you don't see a lot of bronze BWMs.

Although as far as the Boxer Rebellion goes it should be the most common considering the number awarded for each country. The UK had about half the number of men involved.

Anyway I hope to have it in my hands in a couple of weeks.

Regards

Brian

[Paul L Murphy]

Well done Brian, you got a nice medal at a good price. :beer:

[Dieter3]

$406 for a cased 1900 War Medal, $96 for a cased Russo-Japanese War Medal

The world has gone crazy in both directions ! I can find you at least twenty cased 1904-05 medals for every cased 1900.

Tell me about it, and I've got a 2600th Anniversary medal on my spreadsheet that went for $100.00!!

[Dieter3]

Confession time.

I was the winning bidder and I think it would have went higher except the seller will not take Pay Pal. Since this is within Canada (seller in Quebec and I in Ontario) a Postal Money Order is not a problem.

I will say this is an item that was on my "bucket list" (check out the movie) and that's all I'll say on that, so the price was not really a factor.

Given the numbers involved in the boxer rebellion from Japan, 18 Warships, 540 Marines and 20,300 soldiers it is scarcer than many medals. Given the number of Bronze British War Medals (WWI) is at 110,00 the Japanese Boxer Rebellion Medal should be harder to find and you don't see a lot of bronze BWMs.

Although as far as the Boxer Rebellion goes it should be the most common considering the number awarded for each country. The UK had about half the number of men involved.

Anyway I hope to have it in my hands in a couple of weeks.

Regards

Brian

Congrats Brian!!

I sure hope I can find one of these by the end of this year that can satisfy my ultra-picky self!

Do you collect the presentation documents as well??

Paul, do you know what the medal count was on the Japanese Boxer medals??

[RichC]

It seems that the Boxer Rebellion medal is not really as rare as so many think it is. When you think of a rare item, you wouldn't expect to see examples of one for sale every month, and Japanese Boxer medals come up for auction frequently here in Japan as well as on ebay. So do the WW1 Victory medals and the 1939 Nomonhan medals. I suspect that the perceived monetary value is high because of two reasons. First, pre-Internet thinking was that these were ultra-rare items. And when they first started appearing for auction 10 years ago, prices were sky-high. (Not just medals--I always sold sake cups for incredible amounts. $100, $150 each was common.) Second, the campaigns have some appeal to the collector, who usually wants a connection to history. Both the Boxer and the WW1 medal were concerned with allied efforts, so the circle of collectors interested in all items related to those events is quite wide. The Nomonhan medal doesn't qualify for the latter reason, though.

Pricing and value are extremely interesting topics. So much is subjective. Of course, it is easier to assign a relative value to the lower priced items. When a readily available medal like the Russia War medal sells for $96, we can easily see that was an error since so many are available at a fraction of the cost. (Ebay, though, attracts a good number of buyers who do no research, thus the high prices sometimes.) But when a Boxer medal appears for sale every month (or more often) and consistently sells for a high price, one must wonder about why this is so.

Anyway, medals like the 1874 War medal and the 1942 China Incident medal do not appear often, so the paucity of appearances seems to be an objective sign that perhaps they are truly rare. Certainly they do not pop up every week like the WW1 Victory medals nor every other week like the Boxers and Nomonhans do.

Cheers,

Rich

Edited May 23, 2010 by RichC

[Brian Wolfe]

Congrats Brian!!

I sure hope I can find one of these by the end of this year that can satisfy my ultra-picky self!

Do you collect the presentation documents as well??

Paul, do you know what the medal count was on the Japanese Boxer medals??

I have not started collecting the documents but that will probably be next. I've just started to collect Japanese Medals after thinking about it for years. What was I waiting for?

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Rich,

I think that the term "rare" is very subjective, even "scarce" is a term for debate. Prices are always thought to follow supply and demand. This is not true for many objects in our consumer based society.

It's down to "I have one, you don't and what will you pay to own one?" I've said many times that if you purchase medals as an investment then please be sure to live 100 years. Better to put you money into property not bits of medal. Sure the prices will probably go up but just how many "rare" medals would you have to purchase to really show a substancial profit? Collecting is all about history and the Boxer Rebellion is dripping with history. It's more than just the expedition it's everything that lead up to it and followed after.

Holding a piece of history in your hands has a value far out reaching the rarity. Perhaps we need to stay away from the term rare and use uncommon, compaired to, shall we say, the WWI Victory medal (I'm talking British Victory Medals).

I will agree with you 100% that the Boxer Rebellion may be common (ie. not rare) but "I have one, you don't".

I am saying this in jest and it is not pointed at you or any member, it was said purely for humour.

With luck I won't have a dozen members post their Boxer Rebellion Medals with a nasty remark. One has to be so careful not to give insult on the internet. So much clearer and friendly in person.

Regards

Brian

[Paul L Murphy]

I will agree with you 100% that the Boxer Rebellion may be common (ie. not rare) but "I have one, you don't".

Regards

Brian

Well I have the 1900 award document as well as the medal, na..na..na naaa naaaaaaaa :cheeky:

[Dieter3]

Well I have the 1900 award document as well as the medal, na..na..na naaa naaaaaaaa

Ha, ha!!

I did manage to get a document and it's in pretty good shape at least. No holes or tears, so I'm happy about that!! One of deese days, I'll gets me a medal!! I must admit though, part of the enjoyment of this hobby is being on the hunt for that piece you're really after....I'm going to be hunting for a long time......

RARE - To me - this has to be backed up by numbers. I think it is legitimate to say the 1874 and original Great East Asia War Medals are RARE - they simply weren't made in large numbers. I think it would be also safe to say that compared to the China Incident Medal, the Boxer Rebellion medal is RARE. It's pretty relative, but when something was made in very small numbers or survived in very small numbers, it's rare to me! Really need raw production numbers as a place to start.

[Brian Wolfe]

Well I have the 1900 award document as well as the medal, na..na..na naaa naaaaaaaa

Good one Paul.

Regards

Brian

[Paul L Murphy]

To put things into perspective, the highest number I have seen on a 1900 War Medal certificate was 34,845 so it cannot be considered rare with that amount awarded. For comparison, the highest number I have seen so far for the 1894-95 War Medal is 253,508,

for the 1904-05 War Medal it is 1,262,963,

for the 1914-15 War Medal it is 136,512,

for the 1914-20 War Medal it is 310,037,

1st National Census Medal is 108,348,

2,600th anniversary Medal is 220,898,

Capital Rehabilitation Medal is 24,351,

China Incident War Medal is 3,201,849,

Korean Annexation Commemorative Medal is 38,069,

Manchurian Incident War Medal is 589,024,

Meiji 25th Wedding anniversary medal is 821,

Showa Enthronement Medal is 363,953,

Taisho Enthronement Medal is 135,578

and Victory Medal is 193,132.

I have never seen a cert for the 1874, GEAW, China Incident Commemorative Medal or Constitution Promulgation Medal. These numbers are based on keeping a record of every cert I have handled or identified over the past ten years so they should be a good indication of relative scarcity.

:cheers:

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Paul,

Those are some useful statistics, thanks for posting them.

So...the 253,509th collector who wants a 1894-95 medal will consider them rare?

Thanks again.

Regards

Brian