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Another recent arrival, this has me a little puzzled. It was my understanding that the Säbeln were only on the 1870/71 version and suspension was a lug rather than the Öse and the WWI version had the Öse and Schwertern. This has the Öse and Säbeln. Since my batting average hasn't been too good lately :blush: I'll put it to those who know more than I.

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The Säbeln are soldered to the ring.

and there is what could conceivably be a MM, although I think it's most likely marks from a clamp used in the soldering process.

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They seem to ' mix n match ' with these ,I had a cased example that was WW1 ,had crossed swords as per expected but had the heavy lug instead of the thin ' ose ' . I put it down to it being an overstock from 1870/71 that was used later. Ferg1.

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Gentlemen,

Your observations are all pretty much on the mark. Starting at the beginning,

this medal was founded on 30 May 1850 by Prince Georg Wilhelm. It should be

noted here that initially 72 were awarded with the recipient’s name impressed

on the rim.

Now to the ribbon attachments. The first, of course, is the crossed sabers which

was awarded during the 1870-71 war.

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With regard to the öse. It seems that the original medals had the lug style. At some point, probably around 1916,

when the supply of original medals ran out, this was replaced by medals with the plain, 2nd type, as seen in post #1.

This being the case, swords and Red Cross devices are correct on either type of öse; but sabers are correct only on the

earlier lug type.

So what does this say about the example in post #1 - sabers with what appears to be a 2nd type öse? I would not

rush to condemn or criticize. First, it appears to me that this medal shows signs of originally having a 1st type öse;

and, second, period photos often show the sabers on the ring as shown. My guess is that this is perfectly good and

that the original öse was replaced when the sabers were attached.

Thank you Tom Y for bringing this medal to our attention.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

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  • 2 weeks later...

They seem to ' mix n match ' with these ,I had a cased example that was WW1 ,had crossed swords as per expected but had the heavy lug instead of the thin ' ose ' . I put it down to it being an overstock from 1870/71 that was used later. Ferg1.

Next came the crossed swords which was founded in 1914.

Here is another example of 1870/71 medal, with WW1 swords...

The cross is boxed.

:cheers:

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On 26/06/2010 at 15:10, Wild Card said:

And finally the Red Cross device which was also founded in 1914.

According to Nimmergut, these were also awarded to women, on

a bow ribbon.

SLMVM3.jpg

What was the Red Cross awarded for as opposed to the swords?

Edited by Alan
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It was awarded with the Red Cross "without regard to rank, status or gender in recognition of sacrificial activities for the welfare of combatants and their dependents" ("ohne Unterschied des Ranges, Standes und Geschlechtes als Anerkennung einer aufopfernden Tätigkeit für das Wohl des Kämpfenden und deren Angehörigen"), according to the Landesverordnung of 25.10.1914.  It was primarily awarded to civilians.

In the roll, the first 12 names are "Fürstlichkeiten", mostly Schaumburg-Lippe princesses or the wives of Schaumburg-Lippe princes.  At least three of these princesses were married to rulers of other states - Queen Charlotte of Württemberg, Duchess Adelheid of Sachsen-Altenburg, and Princess Bathilde of Waldeck.  Serial numbers 13-44 in the roll are empty, probably to leave space for other awards to higher-ups which were never made.  The rest of the roll runs from serial number 45 to 522, so 478 more awards, unless there are other gaps. I did not have time to review the entire roll, but in the Kreuz für Treue Dienste roll, there are random gaps and duplicate numbers/duplicate entries (thus the award numbers Nimmergut gives, based apparently on the last serial number in the rolls, are slightly off).  

Besides the roll, there are also several accompanying lists by occupation.  There is a list of nurses (Verzeichnis der Vollschwestern und Hilfsschwestern) with 17 names, a list of Hausdamen with 28 names, and a list of Helferinnen with 79 names. So as Wild Card noted, there was a female version on a bow, and indeed there were quite a few awards to females.  I also skimmed through the 1918 Schaumburg-Lippe court and state handbook, and there are about 40 awards shown there, mainly to court officials (male and female), government officials, doctors, teachers and pastors.  There are a handful of people who have both this medal and the Kreuz für Treue Dienste am weißen Bande, since the award criteria overlap a bit.  I suppose this is similar to a Prussian getting the Eiserne Kreuz am weiß-schwarzen Bande and the Verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe, or either of these and the Red Cross Medal.

 

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Dave, 

Thank you for the reply. I have a nice 2nd version from the world war i era without swords but have not seen a 2nd version w/roman swords for sale for my small collection...i will keep hoping for good luck.

regards,

chuck 

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